Today, the Central Statistics Office released figures which show emigration is a feature again in Ireland for the first time since 1996 and that we have also lost 174,000 jobs in the year to March. The House should really focus on the priority of a stimulus package to protect and create jobs and get the country back to work.

Among the population the general understanding is that the Government's proposal for NAMA will allocate €30 billion to Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society. This will not result in a single person being taken off any dole queue anywhere. The Government has defended NAMA on the basis that the €51 billion plus in taxpayers' guaranteed bonds used to acquire toxic assets will leverage money from the European Central Bank, which, in the words of the Minister for Finance, will be allowed to flow back as credit to help struggling businesses and families. Given that this is the main justification for the bailout of the banks and the protection of developers, there are several questions I wish to ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

First, when will lending conditions be eased as a consequence of NAMA? Last week, when asked this question, the Tánaiste said she was not in a position to answer. I am anxious to know if she has made inquiries since then and what answer she has been given.

Second, 40% of the total NAMA bonds will be used to buy toxic loans from Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society. Both are institutions which will never make another loan in the normal sense. In fact, in the case of Anglo Irish Bank the only loan it is interested in is that from a zombie bank to an insolvent developer for a headquarters that is not required. The remaining bonds, some €30 billion, will go to solvent institutions. In turn, this could leverage 80% from the European Central Bank, amounting to €25 billion. Given that 40% of the bonds will be used to acquire toxic loans from Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society, how much extra lending does the Government estimate will be generated by NAMA?

The four clearing banks — mainly Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Banks — are servicing loans from other foreign and Irish banks of approximately €140 billion. They are very eager to pay down these debts. For them, the overriding strategic position is to improve their capital positions and lower their overstretched loan-to-deposit ratios. NAMA will not achieve this. For this reason both the new Governor of the Central Bank, Professor Honohan and the economist, Colm McCarthy, said that there are serious doubts about whether these banks will lend on the extra moneys they get for credit and business here. It is not contained in the legislation. What guarantees have these banks given the Government that the extra money they receive will be lent to small businesses and struggling families across the country?

My three questions are, when will lending conditions be eased as a result of NAMA? How much extra lending does the Government estimate will be generated here? What specific commitments have the banks given the Government that they will lend the extra money to business, as credit is badly needed now because people are losing jobs by the minute?

The Deputy's initial comment arose from the quarterly national survey. While it was not a surprise it is a reminder of the major challenge we face to sustain employment and create new opportunities here. The Government is taking several initiatives to address many of those issues, for example, concern about access to credit for business has been raised in this House over a considerable period. Some have severely criticised NAMA but it is the most appropriate way for us to ensure that there will be a credit supply to business, and stability in the banking system.

As a consequence of NAMA, banks will receive funds cheaper at 1.5% from the European Central Bank, ECB, which will entice them to lend. We have set up a credit clearing group in which we have worked on the Mazars report——

For six months.

That is misleading.

I brought together the banks, all the representatives of the small and medium sized enterprise sector, the foreign direct investment sector, and we have worked progressively on many of the issues raised by many sectors. Most particularly, we have been addressing people on both sides of the argument and familiarising them with the challenges within the banking and business sectors. For example, I have appointed, through Enterprise Ireland, a senior person to the banks and vice versa and we are working with a second bank in order to ensure that the business acumen which is necessary to this economy will be made available to people who wish to make applications to the banks.

When I was asked could I give a definite day or date when this would happen I said we have been progressively working with the banks to make sure that those viable businesses in need of support are supported to the best of our ability. I have provided a framework within which that will happen through the clearing group. People can bring their difficulties to the website that has been set up where we can deal with them on an almost one-to-one basis.

There is a stabilisation fund through which a considerable number of viable yet vulnerable businesses have received support. The employment subsidy scheme which sustains people in employment is as important as the creation of new employment. Although we continue to have many challenges to employment we are redoubling our efforts on the national employment action plan with my colleague the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, targeting training opportunities and convergence courses through which we take on people with skills and move them into new skills. We have a graduate placement programme to prevent our losing the skills that we already have.

We will continue to be vociferous in working with the banks to ensure that credit is made available as quickly as possible to the viable businesses that need to move forward.

When the Minister for Finance spoke on the legislation dealing with the guarantees on deposits he said we are deeply "embedded" in the banking sector. Now the Tánaiste tells me that the Government will continue to be "vociferous". I asked her three questions. I did not ask for a specific day or date. When does the Government calculate that lending restrictions will be eased for small businesses throughout the country? How much does the Government calculate will be made available in extra lending capacity as a result of NAMA, given what I said earlier? Can the Tánaiste tell the House, as she continues to be "vociferous" with the banks and as the committee is doing its work, or at least monitoring if not solving problems, what specific commitments have the Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Banks given the Government that they will use the extra moneys they receive through NAMA to lend on to small business and struggling families across the country?

The Tánaiste has not answered any of those questions and I have a further question. The Government says, through the Minister for Finance, that the NAMA bonds will pay a premium of 0.5% above the main ECB rate and it claims that NAMA can cover its own costs at the introductory rate of 1.5% on the bonds issued to the banks and the big fees to be paid to bankers, lawyers and valuers. On this basis it says that NAMA can break even if the value of the assets purchased rises by 10% over ten years. Has the Government considered what will happen if interest rates rise? The financial markets are pencilling in not just a rise in rates but a quadrupling of the ECB base rate over the next ten years to an average of 3.8%. That would add €1.5 billion extra per year to NAMA's operating costs which over ten years amounts to €15 billion.

That does not take into account the very likely escalation in non-performing loans and the decline in rents expected on the NAMA portfolio. That is a €15 billion black hole in the Government's figures. I have asked four questions, on a day when the Central Statistics Office announced that emigration is back as part of the fabric of this society, and when we know that in the year to March 174,000 people lost their jobs. It is fine to be "vociferous" about the banks and to talk about "convergence" and all these wonderful schemes but can the Tánaiste explain how €30 billion going into Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide will take one person off any of the dole queues around the country which have been created by the incompetence of this Government?

Why did the Deputy not turn up at Farmleigh?

Will the Tánaiste answer the four questions I have asked? They are constructive and pertinent to what we did last week while the Minister intends to shift €58 billion onto the backs of the Irish taxpayers.

Deputy Gilmore turned up.

The Deputy should look at his figures. He should talk to Deputy Lee.

On the basis of those figures the Government should be going to the country but it is afraid.

It is true that emigration has returned. If one looks at the figures one will see that a considerable number are those returning home. That is a fact. There are still over 26,000 people coming into this country.

Let us get back to the question and the "vice versa”.

The Tánaiste is answering the questions.

The Deputy should listen to the answer.

As part of the recapitalisation of the banks there was a tie-in on a code of conduct of business. The banks set down a special fund for green energy and a seed capital fund. The ECB also provided finance to the banks on the basis of new businesses being set up and a considerable sum of money has been drawn down from those schemes. The issue pertinent to many people is not necessarily the creation of new jobs and employment but rather the fate of those in very vulnerable sectors in this country, namely, the tourism, construction and the retail sectors.

What about farmers?

These are vulnerable because of the collapse of the market. In working with those groups, the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy Martin Cullen, and I are looking at specific initiatives regarding the sustainability of that sector of which some 35% is greatly vulnerable.

What about tax incentives?

What about the travel tax?

There is over-supply. We have had to introduce new incentives in order to support that sector and equally so within the retail sector.

I say to the Ceann Comhairle and the Leader of the Opposition that on the basis of the availability of credit——

What about the four questions?

She cannot hear.

——there has been a greater understanding. When this started it was very difficult to get people into the one room but that situation has moved on and there are much better working relationships. As a consequence, a considerable number of difficulties have been addressed. Some credit has been made available.

Is Anglo Irish Bank going to make credit available to anybody?

However, access to further credit is a matter of grave concern and I am working with the banks in order to allow this to happen.

Will Anglo Irish Bank be lending?

I appreciate that Opposition Deputies do not accept NAMA and that is fair enough. People are entitled to their opinions in this House. However, there is an enormous risk if we do nothing. Our view on this side of the House is that the introduction of NAMA is the best way to get liquidity into the banks and get them back to function, to do what they should be doing, namely, lending to businesses and mortgage-holders.

Concerning the view expressed that the risk is so adverse that it will cost the taxpayer, on this side of the House we are very cognisant of the need to protect the taxpayer. That is why due diligence has been done by the professionals on our behalf to assure people that the best decisions——

When did that start?

——are made. As a consequence, the view expressed by the Minister for Finance during the debate was on the basis of an uplift of 10% over ten years. It is not our intention to lose money in NAMA.

Will the Government make money available to Anglo Irish Bank?

There are checks and balances to ensure that if there is any loss — which we do not expect — it will then be a matter for the banks to pay it through the levy.

Therefore, the Tánaiste has no calculation.

I call Deputy Gilmore.

Will the Tánaiste come back tomorrow and answer the questions?

Ask Alan and Garret. They could understand it.

What about the €28 billion?

Now, now. The Deputies will have to have a chat about that later.

The Government has put €30 billion into a dead bank.