When the Order of Business has concluded the House will begin to debate a Bill to cut the pay of State employees and to unilaterally change their conditions of employment. I want the Taoiseach to clarify two matters for me before we begin that debate.

First, will the Taoiseach clarify to whom exactly the Bill will apply? There was speculation over the weekend that it might apply to employees of semi-State companies but that appears to have been clarified. The Schedule to the Bill excludes the semi-State employees. However, there is a provision in the Bill which appears to extend the application of the pay cut not alone to direct employees of the State but to employees of any body which is wholly or partly funded by the State. This presumably means it would be extended to employees of voluntary hospitals, community development projects, family resource centres——

FÁS.

——Leader programmes, development organisations and charities. I want the Taoiseach to tell me if the cuts in pay will apply not alone to direct employees of the State but to all bodies, as stated in the Bill, which are wholly or partly funded directly or indirectly out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas or from the Central Fund.

Second, will the Taoiseach tell the House what impact the cuts imposed under this Bill will have on the weekly household income of a family of a clerical officer in a Government Department married to a library assistant, both earning €30,000 per annum and who have three children? What will be the weekly reduction in that household's income?

The Taoiseach is good at sums.

I do not have in front of me the tables in regard to the impact of the cuts. Obviously, there will be a 5% reduction up to a certain level in respect of the people to whom the Deputy refers.

The situation is as set out in the Schedule to the Bill. The Minister for Finance will outline the provisions in detail on Second Stage and during Committee Stage. The categories of employees to whom it applies are as confirmed by the Deputy.

With regard to those to whom it applies, it is stated that it will apply to a body that is wholly or partly funded directly or indirectly out of money provided by the Oireachtas or from the Central Fund or the growing produce of that fund. As I understand it, that extends the application of the pay cut not alone to direct employees of the State but to all those employed in the various voluntary sectors that are funded by the State, including voluntary hospitals and so on. Frankly, I find it difficult to see how this can be done given that the contracts of employees of those bodies is not with the State but the bodies which employ them. That is what the Bill says. The Taoiseach has not thrown any more light on the issue in his reply.

With regard to the Taoiseach's reply to the second part of the question that he does not know what will be the impact of this measure——

It will be 5%.

——on a family made up of a clerical assistant and library assistant, each earning €30,000 per annum and who have three children, the answer is €70 per week. Of course, the Taoiseach does not know what will be the impact of the cuts because the Government did not bother its barney to assess what would be the impact of its budgetary measures——

Hear, hear.

——on low paid employees and on the type of people, as referred to by Deputy Kenny, who are impacted by the cut in social welfare payments. There is a requirement on Government — it is in the Cabinet handbook — that every measure before Government be poverty proofed. It is to be examined to see what impact it will have on those who are in poverty or at risk of going into poverty. When the Labour Party asked last week in this House where was the document in respect of poverty proofing of the budget and why it was not included in the budget documentation and laid before this House, none of the Ministers present at the time knew anything about it. They knew nothing about any type of examination to see what type of impact the measures in the budget would have on poor people. The Taoiseach's answer today confirms that the Government has not given a second thought to what will be the impact of its budgetary measures on the lives of people in receipt of social welfare payments or in respect of cuts to the earnings of low paid people. The Taoiseach cannot even tell this House today what will be the reduction in the family income of two people impacted by the cut in pay at the lowest level. The Government did not give a second thought to this issue. It does not give a curse for people who are poor or in receipt of low pay.

Deputy Gilmore is back in his mould again.

We are back to the polemics again. I was asked a specific question during Leaders' Questions in regard to which one would not have information unless one had a table. I stated there will be a 5% cut.

I know that.

If the Deputy wants to outline the actual amounts for me then we can work out the figure.

It is the type of information one would remember.

No, it is not.

If it mattered to the Taoiseach, he would remember.

Deputy Gilmore, please.

No, the Deputy is playing word games and trying to suggest to the media that the Government is indifferent in terms of the impact of the cuts. We are well aware of the impact. It is 5% up to a certain level and then moves on to 7.5% and beyond. We have the tables. In respect of this budget, I make the point that taking 2009 and 2010 together, what is termed progressivity, people paying more at the higher end, is the case as a result of what we have been able to achieve in 2009 and 2010 taken together.

The Taoiseach must be joking; that is not the case.

One must look at the tax increases in April and the expenditure cuts now. That has been part of the budgetary strategy to make the adjustment.

Fianna Fáil has been in power for 12 years.

What amuses me in this House——

The Taoiseach does not look amused.

——is the Opposition saying, "Yes, of course, it should be €4 billion" and "Yes, we will be responsible and we will make sure that we come forward with the expenditure cuts" and when it comes to the crunch saying, "No, not that way" and "Think up some other way."

All we are hearing is the populist notions that there is some simple way of this country getting out of trouble.

The Taoiseach, without interruption please.

There is not. It requires the Government to have a bit of gumption and determination to do it and that is what we are prepared to do.