It is proposed to take No. 4, Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Bill 2010 — Second Stage (resumed), to adjourn at 1.30 p.m. if not previously concluded; and No. 17 — statements on the Food Harvest 2020 report. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the following arrangements shall apply with regard to No. 17: the statement of a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons for Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes. The Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 27 October 2010.

There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 17 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 27 October 2010 agreed to?

No.

It is not agreed. The Dáil is going away for the weekend, as is much of the rest of the country. However, there is absolutely no reason the Dáil should not return at 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday and have a normal day's business. At a time when the way out of our current economic difficulties is to work harder and provide better value, the onus is on the Dáil and the Government to ensure we take the lead in this regard by returning at 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday. I am aware that the arrangements with regard to next week's business are such that there will be few votes. I ask the Government to reconsider the example we are giving by not returning at lunchtime on Tuesday. Most people returning to work on Tuesday will be returning at 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock in the morning.

Hear, hear.

I too object to the Dáil's not returning until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday of next week. We have made the case repeatedly, not only last week but again this week, for the Minister for Health and Children, whom I have yet to see in the Chamber this week, to come to the House to address the serious issues with our health services. I will highlight only two of these: the debacle of the relocation of the National Children's Hospital, and the Minister's announcement on Tuesday morning——

Deputy, we are on the Order of Business. We are not having a discussion on matters outside that.

——of anticipated cuts in the health budget of between €600 million and €1 billion in 2011. We need to address these matters because our health service is already seriously underfunded and depleted.

We are dealing with the proposal on the commencement of business next Wednesday.

I am objecting to that——

Yes, I gathered so.

I am proposing that we come back here on Tuesday as normal and have the Minister for Health and Children address these serious matters, which are being discussed in every other forum imaginable but not on the floor of this Dáil.

We need more time to debate the current fiscal difficulties and the economy, and both of these matters could be provided for. In order to get through to the craniums of those who have closed their minds to the arguments against the unrealistic deadline of achieving a 3% budget deficit by 2014——

Deputy, we cannot have a discussion on the economy on the Order of Business.

——we need to have these arguments on the floor of the House.

I am sure the Whips are considering this matter.

For both of these reasons, I propose that we return here next Tuesday as normal.

I requested an opportunity for the House to discuss our economic circumstances next week. Following last night's meeting, there was clarity on objectives and targets, as well as agreement from the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party on those targets and dates. The main Opposition parties have given a strong signal of clarity that they agree with the Government targets. It is now time to get real.

I understand there is a Cabinet meeting on Monday that may well run into Tuesday. I expect that the Government will be serious about this economic debate and that we will talk about the real issues that now face our country and our people, and about the fact that our sovereign independence is at risk. The Government will have to see to it that money is borrowed in January, and that cannot happen in the current circumstances. It requires serious analysis and serious decisions to be made here.

I asked our own Whip to agree with the Government that the decks be cleared of all business on Wednesday, except Leaders' Questions, and that the debate on Wednesday and Thursday be strictly related to the economy. I hope that the Government will come into that debate and outline for us its view of the overall adjustment that must be made over the next number of years, give an assessment of its growth projections, as well as the fiscal adjustment it expects to make in 2011 in the budget on 7 December.

This country is now in a position it has never been in before. I am not going to say——

We cannot have a debate on the economy during the Order of Business.

I requested that a debate like this would take place and I am happy that we will have all day Wednesday and Thursday for it. We have given up our Private Members' time so that all Members can make a contribution on what is a defining moment for this country in Irish politics.

Hear, hear.

I agree with the leader of the main Opposition party. We agreed to clear the decks and I believe the Whips will be meeting later this afternoon to finalise arrangements for the debate next week. The Government will be meeting on Monday and Tuesday, and it is because of this that we wish to return on Wednesday morning. It is a very serious issue. It is clearly our intention to discuss our four year budget and growth plan, and in case people think this has not been happening for some time, let us not forget that there has already been an adjustment of almost €14.5 billion over the last two years. It is on that basis that the Government wishes to have further time for the consideration of the development and completion of the plan, and so proposes to sit on Wednesday and Thursday.

In the course of next week's debate, will the Government be in a position to state clearly for the House its overall adjustment figures for the coming years? Will the Government present to the Dáil for purposes of the debate its best assessment of the projected growth pattern for the coming years? Will the Government indicate at the start of the debate the level of fiscal adjustment to which it is working for the budget in December? In the past two days I have made the point that we need independent verification of the figures upon which parties are expected to prepare their plans. The Minister for Finance may not agree with me on this, but there is now clearly a technical difference between the ESRI projections and the Government's projections produced by the Department of Finance. Obviously the figure reached between the Commission and the Department of Finance is one thing, but it seems——

I know Deputy Kenny does not want to anticipate the debate.

I will finish shortly. The ESRI's figure for adjustment for next year is €4 billion to reach a 10% level. The figure being operated by the Department of Finance is obviously much higher and I am not at liberty to say that.

The Deputy's figures are wrong.

If the ESRI figures are wrong, that is an admission by the Minister for Finance——

We cannot have a debate on the economy on the Order of Business.

We have to know the figures or else we cannot have the debate.

It is unfair to the seriousness of the subject.

The ESRI is a reputable body.

It is paid for by the State.

My party has a very clear view of adherence to the 3% target and the 2014 date. If the Minister for Finance tells the Dáil now that the figures being used by the ESRI are wrong, he is entitled to make that comment.

The figures the Deputy mentioned are wrong, the €4 billion.

My point is that if the Government expects the Opposition parties to be serious about preparations for a recovery plan——

Can we have the Deputy's co-operation on this matter?

——and about the figures for the budget, we need to know what are the official figures off which the Government is working.

Hear, hear.

All these matters can be addressed next week.

We are waiting for the figures for a long time.

While I am on my feet, the Minister for Finance said on numerous occasions that he respected robust political debate. In his contribution to "Morning Ireland" yesterday he tried to turn the issue by pointing to Fine Gael attacking public servants for their production of figures. The Department of Finance is run by the Deputy, as Minister for Finance, and it is on his direction that figures are produced.

Deputy Kenny, please.

That is not correct.

The Deputy is showing his lack of experience.

All these points can be made next week.

It is disingenuous of the Minister to say we attacked——

That is incorrect.

Deputy Kenny should stop digging.

We just want to firm up on the arrangements for the debate next week.

The Government and the Department are run by the Minister.

Some co-operation would be much appreciated.

In political terms, the Minister is the most powerful Minister for Finance in history——

We never had less money.

——but the substance of the figures he has given us has been wrong on every occasion.

Deputy Kenny, the motion on the economy is not before the House at this point in time and he is really anticipating the debate next week.

This is a serious matter.

No, this party——

I do not direct my civil servants about figures.

——and the Labour Party will work constructively in the interests of this economic debate.

The figures are wrong.

Deputy, we are on the Order of Business.

This will be the first time in three years that the Government will be right about the figures.

I need to have accuracy and truth in terms of the figures off which the Minister is working.

Could I have the Deputy's co-operation?

The Ceann Comhairle has my co-operation.

I call Deputy Burton.

The Minister is backing around a corner instead of going forward.

Deputy Kehoe, please.

On the Order of Business, in regard to the proposals for the debate next week, will the Tánaiste indicate if the Government intends to give the Government's indicative growth figures because it is not possible to construct an economic plan without the Government's indicative growth figures?

Deputy Burton, I have advised Deputy Kenny——

This is so important. It is the basics.

——that we cannot have a full scale debate on the economy on the Order of Business. It is unfair in light of the seriousness of the subject to be debated.

This is about next week.

We are talking about the arrangements for next week.

With respect, a Cheann Comhairle, this is about the arrangements for next week. The Government put in place a mechanism for briefing the Opposition. I spent two and half hours on Monday in the Department of Finance, for which I thank the Minister. However, the Department of Finance later took me and Deputy Noonan through a set of scenarios, which it presented as the Department's scenarios. The ESRI, which is a Government funded independent think tank, has come out with a different——

Deputy Burton——

Just bear with me. It has come out today with a different set of scenarios.

I am sure the Deputy will make those points next week——

I am asking the Government that if it is going——

——and that is the time to make them, not now.

The Tánaiste just said the Government is meeting on Monday and Tuesday——

Could I have the Deputy's co-operation, please?

——to set out its figures.

Could I have the Deputy's co-operation on this matter?

Yes.

I have advised the Deputy that arrangements are being put in place to have the debate next week but the Deputy is endeavouring to kick-start it this morning.

No. The Tánaiste said the Government is meeting on Monday and Tuesday to finalise the figures. I am asking if, in the course of the debate, the Government can confirm now that either before or during the debate it will give us its indicative figures.

Second, can I ask the Tánaiste if before the debate commences the Minister for Finance, who is present, will publicly indicate whether the senior debt in Anglo Irish Bank has been redeemed in full or rolled over under the extended——

All those questions can be raised during the debate.

No, these are important ground rules.

We are talking in the context of an arrangement being put in place for a full scale debate on the economy.

Will the Government make an arrangement——

——and the Deputy is getting into the technical aspects of it this morning. The Deputy is out of order on the Order of Business.

——then for the Opposition——

The Deputy is simply out of order.

——finance spokespeople to meet the Minister for Finance before the debate so that we can get this information supplied to us?

Deputy, please.

Remember that consensus is about sharing information so that we can make reasonable decisions.

I am very sure the Deputy will ask those questions and make those points during the debate next week. If the Deputy was being deprived of the opportunity to do so, that would be a different matter——

The Government and the Minister, Deputy Gormley, wanted consensus.

——but this opportunity is being provided for the Deputy.

Consensus is about the sharing of reliable information.

That is basic information.

Can I ask the Tánaiste a third question about next week? At the end of the debate will the Government agree to take questions for a period of an hour or two in order to refine and give the Opposition and the citizens of this country knowledge about the plan with which the Government is going to Brussels the week afterwards? That is just simple information not particularly for the Parliament but for the citizens of our country.

The Deputy has made her point. Can I move on? I call an Teachta Ó Caoláin.

I have a second issue that I want to raise.

In relation to the same matter?

It is a much happier issue. The weekend after next is Hallowe'en. No. 36 on the Government's legislative programme is the sale of alcohol Bill. There are two issues in this respect. The first one relates to home deliveries. The Minister has promised to include in that legislation restrictions on home deliveries to under age drinkers.

Is there promised legislation on this matter?

There is no mechanism in place in that respect.

Deputy, let us not develop Second Stage standard debate at this point on the issue.

The second issue is that the Minister for Justice and Law Reform——

Deputy Burton, could I have co-operation, please?

——has promised for ten years that there would be identification of who sells alcohol and information on where the alcohol originates on bottle labels.

Fine, Deputy. Will you resume your seat please? I call an Teachta Ó Caoláin.

Will the Tánaiste tell us when this legislation will come before the House?

I call an Teachta Ó Caoláin.

Can I have a reply to my question?

On a point of order, the Ceann Comhairle has called the next speaker before the Tánaiste has responded.

The Tánaiste will respond to the query on the legislation.

I will be more than happy to respond. The sale of alcohol legislation will be ready early next year.

On the debate next week, there will be further discussions with the Whips on the way in which this debate will be managed and on the Order of Business preparation for next week. It is appropriate to reiterate that the Government will be meeting on Monday and Tuesday, the Minister for Finance will be in Europe at the beginning of the week and he will apprise the Government and bring forward its perspective at the debate. We are working out a four-year plan on budget and growth. The Department of Finance has provided its assessment——

Its assessment but we want the Government's.

We have listened to an awful lot of questions today from Deputy Burton and I certainly look forward during the course of the debate to hearing some answers from her.

Will the Tánaiste provide us with the Government's figures?

Deputy Burton, please, I call an Teachta Ó Caoláin.

Is the Tánaiste going to answer my other questions? She did not address them.

Deputy Burton, please. I call an Teachta Ó Caoláin.

Clearly, from what has just been said, this consensus continues, in which I must say I am glad I have no hand, act or part.

I appeal to the Minister before he leaves — I notice he was shaking his head in rejection of the fact that the ESRI has come out this morning confirming, as has the ICTU, the community and voluntary sector and a growing number of economists that the Sinn Féin position we have argued is indeed correct — not to put pride before prudence in terms of giving real assessment and analysis to the arguments being presented if we are going to have an opportunity to have a proper debate here in the coming week. Coming in with closed minds to the alternative arguments being presented by other voices certainly will not aid and abet the objective of getting the right answers. The Minister's whole disposition this morning——

The Deputy will be well able to make those points next week——

——is very regrettable.

——and he will have ample opportunity to do so.

We will avail of it, make no mistake, but I make an appeal in advance of it that the Government will not adopt a dog in the manger approach with closed minds to alternative ideas that are clearly growing in favour right across Irish society.

I remember speaking on Second Stage of the Student Support Bill a few years ago, but it seems no progress has been made on the Bill since then. I am sure many Deputies have had people call to their clinics who have not yet been paid their grants. There is a huge backlog of grant applications and the various authorities are stretched in terms of their ability to process them. Has the Tánaiste any plan to bring forward this legislation, as it was supposed to reform the position?

On the same matter——

Yes, Deputy, briefly.

The entire matter has been made very much worse by the announcements on the amalgamation of VECs and also by the changes in staff in local authorities.

The Deputy cannot develop that debate now.

I am not developing a debate. I am making the point that circumstances have changed because those officials in the local authorities who dealt with student grants are no longer dealing with them because of cuts. It is important the Student Support Bill is brought back to the House to relieve the hardship experienced by students. Deputy Tuffy is quite right to raise the matter. It is a matter Labour Party Deputies have been raising for months.

Deputy Higgins can make those points when the Bill comes back to the House. When is the legislation promised?

I am finalising work on the Student Support Bill and will bring it to Committee Stage this session.

When the Croke Park deal was agreed, it was accepted each lead Department would produce a specific plan on reform and efficiencies. When questioned on this last week in the House, the Tánaiste said those plans would not be published, despite the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, telling the Seanad they would. Will the Tánaiste clarify for the House if these plans will now be published?

This is not a matter for the Order of Business. The Deputy can raise it next week during the debate on the economy.

The problem, Sir, is the Tánaiste already addressed the matter last week. I am looking for clarification on it. I do not normally waste the Ceann Comhairle's time on the Order of Business. Will he give me some latitude?

The Deputy will have ample opportunity next week. He can talk to his party's Whip and get a speaking slot.

Okay, we will try this another way. On a point of order, it is normal practice when a Member, directly or inadvertently, misleads the House that he or she is given an opportunity to correct the record of the House at the next available opportunity. The Tánaiste said last Thursday that the plans by each Department would not be published. Will she change this position in light of the comments made by her colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, in the Seanad?

That is a fair point.

It is an excellent point.

We are working through the process. The implementation plans have been finalised by the relevant Departments and offices. These must be reviewed by the implementation body in the next several weeks. Only after this ongoing process has been completed will any documentation be made available.

The Tánaiste told the House——

Deputy Brian Hayes, we are on the Order of Business. The Deputy has had ample opportunity to make his point.

The Tánaiste told the House last week the plans would not be published. Is she now telling the House they will?

That is a simple question that requires a simple answer.

Will the Deputy raise these points next week during the debate?

Is she now telling the House they will be published?

I call Deputy Pat Breen.

There is a precedent here. If the Ceann Comhairle allowed this matter to be raised last Thursday, why can I not raise it now? Seven days have elapsed.

Deputy, we are on the Order of Business.

I am sure the Tánaiste would like to reply.

The Order of Business does not provide for another Question Time. The Deputy will have to find another way to raise this matter such as through a parliamentary question or an Adjournment matter.

Why did the Ceann Comhairle allow the same question last Thursday?

The Deputy will be able to raise these matters next week during the debate on the economy.

The Tánaiste wants to reply.

I am sorry if Deputy Brian Hayes did not understand what I said. Perhaps he will look at the Official Report.

The Tánaiste has changed her position in seven days.

That is called a U-turn.

I call Deputy Pat Breen.

I promise I will not be disruptive this morning. In view of this morning's announcement of 107 job losses at Shannon Aerospace and the potential for more job losses at an adjoining company, what action has the Government taken to implement the recommendations of the mid-west task force report? Were there early warning signs of these job losses? What action has been taken to sustain and assist these companies in the Shannon region?

The Deputy should put that question to the line Minister.

It is about the mid-west task force report, which was sponsored by the Government.

Will the Deputy submit a parliamentary question? I call Deputy Joe Carey and ask him to be brief.

It is the wall of silence on the Government side that I am concerned about.

The mid-west taskforce report was published by the Tánaiste when she was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. The mid-west is in crisis with this morning's announcement of the loss of 107 jobs at Shannon Aerospace.

Will the Deputy submit a parliamentary question?

The future for another 100 jobs is also bleak. The mid-west must be identified as an employment priority by the Government. We need a statement from the Government about this.

The Deputy will have ample opportunity to make these points next week on the debate on the economy.

All we are getting is a wall of silence from the Government.

Can I have the Deputy's co-operation?

Will the Tánaiste give us the courtesy of making some statement about these job losses?

The Deputy will resume his seat.

Will she not make some statement in light of these job losses?

Will the Deputy make those points next week and resume his seat?

Is she not going to make any statement?

When the Chair is on its feet, the Deputy must resume his seat.

Why can she not make a statement?

Resume your seat, Deputy. I call Deputy Durkan.

A Cheann Comhairle, on the same issue, the Tánaiste must respond to this. When the Dell jobs were lost in Limerick, she was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. She set up the taskforce——

The Order of Business does not provide for this type of debate.

Jobs are being devastated in the mid west. We need a debate on this.

The Order of Business provides for a simple question on promised business or legislation.

Shannon Airport and the mid west are being ignored by the Government.

Three Deputies have so far raised this issue. I understand it is an important issue to the region.

My colleagues from Clare are right.

Can I have the Deputy's co-operation?

There are jobs being lost in the mid west. Shannon Airport will be closed if nothing is done.

Will she find a different way of raising the matter in the House either through a parliamentary question or an Adjournment matter?

I put this matter down for the Adjournment yesterday but the Ceann Comhairle refused it.

The Deputy can submit it again. I call Deputy Durkan.

All we get is silence from the Government while the mid west goes down the tubes.

It is only silence from the Government side.

I note a reluctance to introduce promised legislation relating to banking and the economic situation. More than a year ago, legislation was promised to provide for people in mortgage arrears. Up to 37,000 families are in serious arrears with their mortgage repayments with many of them before the courts.

The Deputy can raise this next week on the debate on the economy. He can put his name down early for his slot.

No, this is a question on promised legislation. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance promised the House legislation in this area during the debate on NAMA. The only offer so far to assist those with mortgage arrears has been from the Department of Social Protection through mortgage interest relief. The problem is greater than that. It relates to compound interest applicable to all mortgage arrear cases which has not changed. When will legislation to deal with this matter be introduced?

An expert group on this matter has been set up which will report to the Minister for Finance at the end of October. Whether legislation will be required then is a matter for the Minister for Finance.

The legislation to amend the Bretton Woods Agreement which will provide for Ireland's membership of the IMF's new arrangements to borrow is very relevant. I would regard this legislation as urgently required to improve and enhance our standing in international markets at this sensitive time. When will it be introduced in the House?

That is an excellent question.

It will be introduced next year.

Next year? Like everything else it will be mañana.

Mañana is not next year.

Okay, it will be mañana next year.

Up to €7 billion of senior bondholders' debt was due to be redeemed in September 2010. Have any bonds been redeemed? If so, for how much and who paid for them? Was it €15 billion, as we have been told?

The Deputy will have to put down a parliamentary question to the line Minister.

This is a matter of serious interest and comes under the Appropriation Bill. How can we have——

Seeking detailed information on the Order of Business is inappropriate.

It might be inappropriate from the Ceann Comhairle's perspective. The taxpayers, however, are entitled to know if €15 billion has been paid out on their behalf.

I am not disagreeing with the sentiment of the Deputy's point but he should submit a parliamentary question to the Minister for Finance.

This is more debt around the taxpayers' necks. This slipped under the wire. Will the Tánaiste inform us whether these moneys have been paid? If so, was it by the Central Bank or the European Central Bank? Who is carrying the can for this?

Will the Deputy submit a parliamentary question to the Minister for Finance? I call on Deputy Sheahan.

We get no answer. It is not relevant.

Silence from the Government corner.

The Deputy has been ruled out of order.

I have one other matter I wish to raise regarding the relevance of this House. The Minister for Health and Children is out in the ether making statements about €1 billion in cuts in the health budget. Will she make a statement to the House as to where these cuts are to be made and when? We are entitled, on behalf of the people, to be informed about this.

I expect the Deputy will be speaking on the debate on the economy next week.

Yes, but will the Minister be here next week?

I expect I will but will the Minister tell us where these cuts will apply?

We are like a ship without a rudder and no captain.

Does the Tánaiste envisage secondary legislation to be introduced to address some anomalies with the Planning and Development Bill 2010, recently passed by the House? We understood that the intent of the Bill was to give people a five year extension on planning permissions where they had not yet carried out the building work. Now, however——

Put down a parliamentary question to the line Minister.

A Cheann Comhairle, I am totally in order, for once.

The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government deals with planning.

The intent of the Bill was that people would be allowed to extend planning permissions by five years. However, regulations have now been put in place whereby people will have to satisfy the rural settlement policy——

Deputy, we must find out if there is promised legislation in this area.

——and the latest EPA guidelines regarding percolation. That was not the spirit of the Bill. We were giving people a break and now we are whipping them——

The Deputy is getting into detail.

I am big on detail, a Cheann Comhairle.

Is there promised legislation in this area?

I am not sure if secondary legislation is required but we will inquire from the Department and revert to the Deputy.

A few days ago one of my constituents told me she lost her medical card due to her income situation. She is now getting her medication in Northern Ireland at one third of the price in the Republic. When will the reference pricing for drugs be introduced? I understand that at least €200 million could be saved in this area, which might be useful for some of the issues raised by Deputy Reilly.

Second, in light of the fact that people in rural areas are having great difficulty accessing accommodation in the centres of excellence to have their cancer operations carried out, when will the eligibility for health services Bill be introduced so we can discuss what is really happening at these centres? It is not the case that things are excellent and working out perfectly.

The first legislation mentioned will be introduced next year. There is no date for the other legislative measure.

What is the timescale for the publication of the promised Bill to ban corporate donations? Second, what is the timescale for the publication of the Bill to transfer the functions of FÁS to the Department of Social Protection? Third, there appears to be a major problem with the production of legislation. There is little legislation before the House this week and there was very little last week, although a raft of legislation has been promised. Is there a difficulty in the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel or why does the Government appear to be incapable of producing promised legislation?

I understand the question on corporate donations was answered during the week. The Minister is due to bring forward proposals to Government and hopes to do that by the end of the year. With regard to the transfer of FÁS functions to the Department of Social Protection, the Minister is working on that legislation and intends to have it ready in this session.