NAMA conflicts of interest
Gerry Adams challenges the continued involvement of advisers linked to NAMA-related firms, citing secrecy and substantial professional fees. The Taoiseach says the Finance Minister is considering improvements and asks that specific conflicts be reported, while defending transparent tendering and activity in the property market.
Next week, the Government will be in office for a year. Before the last election, Fine Gael rightly railed against what it described as "professional advisers, accountants, lawyers … [and] other consultants … linked [with the] National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, the National Treasury Management Agency, NTMA, the bailed-out banks, the Central Bank and the Department of Finance". The Taoiseach and Fine Gael correctly identified an obvious conflict of interest then. One year later, however, this network remains in place. Indeed, many of the senior figures in NAMA were also senior members of the banking, financial and property sectors which caused the crisis.
An aontaíonn an Taoiseach liom go bhfuil coimhlint leasa aige i dtaobh na rudaí seo ar fad? Cá bhfuil an trédhearcacht ar sheas sé leis chomh láidir sin i rith an tochgháin. Bhíodh sé ag tabhairt amach ansin, ach anois is léir go bhfuil on ciorcal órdha fós faoi chosaint aige. Tá sé ag cosaint na saibhir in ionad na boicht.
Some 16 firms were selected by the agency to advise it on loan sales in Europe and the USA. NAMA has confirmed to me that some of its senior management have links with these 16 firms. Does the Taoiseach believe there is sufficient transparency to avoid conflicts of interest in the sale of these assets which he identified? We are talking about billions of euro worth of assets that are being sold by NAMA. The Dáil and the public deserve to know how much taxpayers' money NAMA has paid for the properties it controls. A year ago, the Taoiseach promised transparency and that "details of all non-performing loans acquired by NAMA will be available for scrutiny on a public register, including the names of the creditors, the price paid by the taxpayer for the loans and the actions taken by NAMA to recover the loans".
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Why has the Taoiseach not delivered on this promise? Why does NAMA remain cloaked in secrecy?
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Tá a fhios agam go maith céard atá an Teachta a rá. Tá sé fíor gur labhair mé amach faoi struchtúr NAMA le fada. Tá a fhios mhaith aige freisin go bhfuair an t-Aire Airgeadais eolas agus comhairle faoi leith ó dhuine a bhfuil eolas aige faoi na nithe seo, agus gur mian leis athraithe ar struchtúir NAMA, mar atá sé faoi láthair, a thabhairt os comhair an Rialtais.
I must point out the NAMA business of tendering is very transparent. I advise Deputy Adams that if he has a case in which there is clearly a conflict of interest with NAMA, he should report it to the authorities and bring it to public attention. He is aware of the specific legislation which set up NAMA. He is also aware of the difficulty and the problems that were experienced by some people who wished to tender for and purchase property in NAMA's portfolio and the link established to allow public representatives to make a connection for people who wished to do that. If Deputy Adams has details of incidents which he considers, or has been informed of, conflict of interests with NAMA, he should bring it to public attention.
The Minister for Finance has received some advice about the NAMA structure which he is considering. He will bring it to the attention of the House when he has made his mind up.
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It was the Taoiseach who identified the conflict of interest and I am bringing it to public attention. That is what this question is about. NAMA has told me some of its senior management have links with 16 of the firms the agency selected to advise it on loans sales. That is the question.
It is interesting that since its foundation, NAMA has spent €27.5 million on legal fees, €2.5 million on accountancy fees and projected costs for 2012 are €200 million. It is also interesting that NAMA will be advancing €568 million to construction activity outside of this island. Two thirds of its assets are in this State but 50% of its cash advances will be spent in Britain, at a time when almost 500,000 people are on the dole and there are unfinished housing estates spread across every county. NAMA employs 100 developers, some of whom earn as much as €200,000 a year. Is this a conflict of interest and does it provide value for money? More importantly, is it in keeping with the commitments the Taoiseach gave to rectify the situation by establishing a public register and including the names of the creditors and the price paid by the taxpayer for the loans, in addition to the actions taken by NAMA? The question is whether there is a public register, if the names of the creditors are on it and the amount of taxpayers' money that is being spent.
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As I said to Deputy Adams, the Minister for Finance has received some advice on the improvement in the situation in so far as NAMA is concerned. I remind him that it is important for the construction industry that there would be some movement in the property market in this country. I do not want a situation where because of a huge sense of fear on the one hand, as we had before the veneer of everlasting wealth occurred in the country, that somebody is not entitled to take a risk in respect of the purchase of property. One does not want complete stagnation because that stunts the opportunity to have a thriving construction sector, which is very important both for the economy, job opportunities and trade in general.
Deputy Adams will recall that the Anglo Irish Bank portfolio in the United States, for instance, was moved on quickly to the prime market and resulted in an extensive sale of assets of the order of €8 billion. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, has made the point that it is very difficult for him to have a group that can look objectively at the issue without being in some way connected or associated with either a property or persons related to a property that are now involved in the extensive portfolio held by NAMA. The Deputy is aware that the Minister has not been able to attend the House for personal, family reasons for some weeks. He is anxious to improve the situation because of the necessity to have a thriving, but not reckless, construction sector. I am sure when he decides to promote whatever changes he wishes, following the advice he has been given, he will bring it to the House.
It is fair to say that persons who wish to purchase property can either contact the developer or the examiner, as the case might be, or NAMA. I listened to the chairman of NAMA speak on radio some time ago when he dealt with the question of developers who are still employed by NAMA and on NAMA's books because of their capacity to run some of those enterprises. He dealt with that in some detail both at the committee and publicly afterwards. It is an issue in terms of the way NAMA was set up. It was given a specific remit to return value to the taxpayer. How one gets the best result on that is what interests the Minister now.