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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Rural Garda station closures

Summary

Thomas Pringle opposed rural Garda station closures and reduced staffing, arguing they weaken community policing and emergency response. The Taoiseach defended modernised rosters, mobility, vehicles and visibility, while saying closures would follow the Garda Commissioner’s recommendations; ensuing heckling and a dispute over remarks were ruled out of order before Questions resumed.

Statistics published in recent days show a low number of gardaí in many rural Garda stations. No doubt the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice and Equality will use this to justify the closure of Garda stations throughout rural Ireland as part of the review of the Garda Síochána's capacity to operate with reduced resources. Almost a third of all Garda stations are staffed by just one garda, 88 have just two serving gardaí while 40 stations are without any permanent garda assigned to duty. This should not be used as a reason to close stations but to reconsider the ban on new recruits. Counties such as Donegal, Galway and Mayo will face massive closures due to this ban.

It can take a squad car from the nearest station up to two hours to get to its destination. In one recent incident in Donegal, a patrol car had to travel 45 miles to attend a serious arson incident. Many areas in Donegal have been plagued by burglary and vandalism, where criminals have no fear because they know they will not be caught. Some people living on their own are so afraid that, when they go to bed at night, they leave €50 on the kitchen table in case the house is burgled in the hope the burglar will take it and leave. That is no way to live. The fact that this is going on before any further cuts have been made makes it more worrying. We have already seen the closure of almost 40 Garda stations this year and it is reported that up to 80 more face closure. This is not efficient, it is just dangerous. Can the Taoiseach inform the House of his plan for tackling crime in rural areas and how he equates fewer stations and fewer gardaí with more efficiency? How many more closures will we see by the year's end and for how many more years will we see closures happen before the recruitment embargo is lifted to ensure the safety of all citizens?

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The Government would close them all if it could get away with it.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Pringle is aware that the nature of contact between the Garda Síochána and the public has changed over the years. The requirement for it has been very clear. There are 664 Garda stations whereas Scotland, with a population of 5.2 million, has 340 police stations. Northern Ireland has 85 stations and will return to 45. The decisions made are of interest in town and country and I have seen it over many years. There is little point in having a Garda sitting in a decrepit building for two hours on Wednesday-----

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They are the eyes and ears of the public.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----to sign unemployment assistance forms when the public demands visibility, connection, availability and contact.

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They have no squad cars.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Through the work of the Minister for Justice and Equality-----

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He wants to put them in community centres.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and all concerned, rosters have been changed and moneys have been available through the capital Vote for the purchase of new vehicles for members of the Garda Síochána.

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Segways on Grafton Street.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Pringle asked the question.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The public demands, in rural Donegal and everywhere else, to know where the Garda Síochána can be contacted when needed and that the public has visibility of the force moving through the communities. A variety of opportunities present themselves in that regard.

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Maybe the Taoiseach will put up photos.

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Like scarecrows.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The question of the closure of Garda stations will follow any recommendation made by the Garda Síochána Commissioner to the Minister for Justice and Equality and the Vote for next year in respect of the Garda Síochána is a matter for the budget. We have absolute support for the work the Garda Síochána does in the country. I compliment the Garda Síochána on having accepted the changes to rosters that allow greater availability and visibility at times when they are required where people or crowds have gathered. It is the same old story. If Deputy Pringle thinks the best method of Garda contact with the public is to have them sitting for two hours on a Wednesday in a building 100 years old-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----when, if anyone had an intention of criminal activity, the person would not be going there-----

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That is an insult.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

What the Garda Síochána needs is community contact with town and country, availability, visibility and connection. That is the changing face of interaction with the public.

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It shows how little the Taoiseach knows. He spends too much time with his Garda driver.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That is why the Minister for Justice and Equality has, with the co-operation of the Garda Síochána, changed many of the structures for the better.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I think there is only one Deputy Pringle in the House so perhaps Members will listen to him.

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The Garda Review recently described these changes as a victory for criminals. The closure of rural Garda stations means members of the Garda Síochána are not in contact with the local community. They must travel over 50 miles to emergency callouts, which is hardly progress in terms of policing. Since 2008, the number of gardaí has reduced by 1,000 and staffing levels in 108 Garda district have fallen by over 10%. The Garda Síochána cannot access staff or vehicles in many rural areas and cannot access the public because they have no means of getting there. Is that the kind of policing the Taoiseach wants across the country?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

No, I want to see that the public has confidence in the Garda Síochána, in the officers who conduct business on behalf of the public and that the force has the resources to do the job. That is why over 200 new Garda cars have been purchased by a decision of Government due to the clapped-out nature of some cars with high mileage.

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Lucky bags at Christmas.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Additional vehicles will be purchased for the Garda Síochána in 2013.

The operation that targeted burglars has resulted in over 2,500 arrests and 1,400 charges. This is significant in the context of the gardaí finding out who the people are and bringing 1,400 charges against them. The important point is that the Garda Síochána has changed the way it does business in terms of rosters. Its visibility, on the streets and across the country, has changed because of the changes to rosters. The capacity to be connected, to be contacted and to contact each other-----

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That is because they are following the Taoiseach. He sees them all the time.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Even in Tipperary, the communication systems work so much better than previously. That is important for people who want to know what the Garda confidential line is-----

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It is for the Taoiseach and Deputy Tom Hayes.

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Deputy Mattie McGrath does not want to see them.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----so they can make contact with their gardaí when they need them. If Deputy Mattie McGrath thinks that sitting in an ivy-covered building, which needs €100,000 to do it up, for two hours on Wednesday is the way to do justice in this country, he is out of touch.

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Fewer police cars, that is the way to do it.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I, the Minister and the Commissioner want to see the Garda Síochána active in communities, interacting with people and being available to people and being seen by them. This engenders confidence and information, which is very important. Things have changed and the capacity of the Garda Síochána to reach into communities, town and country, is changing with it. We need to use modern methods of transport, communications and connection. If Deputy Mattie McGrath wants a new patrol car, he came into contact with the gardaí some time ago and should be very careful about that.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

That completes Leaders' Questions.

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A Cheann Comhairle, I want that withdrawn-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Withdraw what? Deputy Mattie McGrath should resume his seat.

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I want to know what the Taoiseach meant by that.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I do not know what Deputy Mattie McGrath is talking about.

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Deputy Mattie McGrath should call the Garda Síochána.

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He is casting innuendo.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will Deputy Mattie McGrath sit down?

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I want to know what he meant by that.

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Deputy Mattie McGrath should Google it.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will Deputy Mattie McGrath sit down?

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I want to know what he meant by that.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

There are other ways of dealing with the issue.

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How? If he simply withdraws it, it would be fine. It is not funny. Three gardaí delivered a baby on Monday night.

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Congratulations.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The first question is in the name of Deputy Micheál Martin.

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I have a good rapport with gardaí.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I read about that too.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

When Members are finished shouting at each other, we will get back to Questions to the Taoiseach.

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