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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Irish debt and Greek concessions

Summary

Shane Ross asked whether Ireland would seek Greece’s debt concessions and refuse payment of the €3 billion promissory note due in March 2013. The Taoiseach said Greece’s position differed from Ireland’s, but confirmed that the Government was negotiating with the ECB to re-engineer the promissory notes and avoid that payment.

Will the Taoiseach consider sending a note of congratulations to the Greek Prime Minister, Mr. Antonis Samaras, on the stroke he pulled last night in having an enormous amount of Greece's debt implicitly written off? Indeed, Mr. Samaras described the deal as a great victory. It is time Ireland was in a position to claim - in the context of its own debt negotiations - a great victory. We have one important thing in common with the Greeks, namely, we both have unsustainable levels of debt. The Greeks seem to have worked this to their advantage but we seem to find it very difficult to do so. While Greece celebrates this great deal today, we sit on the sidelines as spectators.

Did the Taoiseach hear the chairperson of the Economic and Monetary Affairs Committee of the European Union state on "Morning Ireland" that, in light of the Greek deal, Ireland had been left with a raw deal on the promissory notes relating to the former Anglo Irish Bank? I understand the Taoiseach's refusal to accept advice from this side of the House to the effect that he should take unilateral action in respect of the Anglo deal. When such advice is offered by impartial and key individuals from within the European Union, however, it is time he listened. The deal done last night was spectacular and it implicitly writes off some of the Greek debt in the period 2016 to 2020. It will also will give the Greeks interest rates on some of their loans of 50 basis points, which is virtually nothing, and extends those loans. This is something which we have completely and utterly failed to achieve.

What does Greece have that Ireland does not have?

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Greece has eyeballed the EU and the IMF and we have not managed to do so.

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Greece lightning.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Please allow Deputy Ross to complete his questions.

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In light of the Greek deal, is the Taoiseach prepared to tell the European Union, the European Commission and the IMF that we will not be paying the promissory notes on 31 March next? If he did so, those entities would listen to us in the same way they listened to Greece last night.

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How is the Deputy's tour going?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Or indeed the way people are encouraged to pay €25 to see the Deputy play a scripted role at the Bord Gáis Éireann Theatre.

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I freely paid for my ticket.

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Some tickets only cost a fiver.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

May we please revert to Leader's Questions?

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We call shows like the one in question bucket meetings.

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The Taoiseach has some-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Pay up. I do not know whether the show in question is a rewriting of a certain script and should be called "Four Angry Men".

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There are two complementary tickets left if the Taoiseach wants them.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The position today is somewhat different from that which obtained some months ago when it was stated that Greece would default-----

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It did not have to do so.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

It defaulted last night.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----that it would be driven out of the euro and that there would be a catastrophic situation here as a result. What we are discussing here is a decision that was made by eurozone Ministers which is designed to ensure that Greece will maintain its position as a member of the eurozone and will be able to work its way out of its difficulties. The position of Greece is entirely different from those of Ireland and Portugal.

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Deputy Mathews has a different view.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We have separated those positions in the past 12 months and it is recognised across the world that Greece is in a completely different position to Ireland. Deputy Ross inquired as to what Greece has which Ireland does not. The tax-free threshold there has been lowered from €12,000 to €5,000. A married couple with only one earner in Ireland only enters the income tax net at €25,750-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and a single person does so at €16,500. The number of public sector job cuts in Greece will be 150,000 by 2015. Any public service reductions here were done on a voluntary basis. Monthly pensions above €1,000 in Greece will be cut by 20%, the minimum wage is being cut by 20%-----

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Answer the question.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----from €751 to €600 per month. The Greek Government is obliged to raise €11 billion through privatisation by 2016. This money will solely be used to pay down debt.

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That is a boomerang.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The attendance of the Minister for Finance at yesterday's meeting in Brussels means that the decision that was made will not mean-----

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What are we going to get out of it? A hearing. Ráiméis.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----that Ireland will be a contributor in so far as Greece is concerned.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Ross will be aware that we contributed over €350 million in bilateral loans. We will not be required to return profits or interest in this regard. That is a recognition of the very different situation in which Greece finds itself.

For the Deputy's information, let me repeat that a great deal of work is taking place in terms of the preparation for the legal framework as a consequence of the decision on 29 June-----

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Live horse and you will get grass.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----to sever the link between sovereign and bank debt and in respect of the promissory notes with the ECB. It is the intention of the Minister for Finance, on behalf of the Government, not to have to pay the €3 billion that is due in March 2013. It is in this regard that discussions are continuing to take place with the European Central Bank. I noted Deputy Martin's comments on the conclusion of the European Council report to the effect that these are things which could be restructured quite easily. That is a bit Irish coming from a member of the Government which made the most extraordinary economic decision ever foisted onto the Irish people.

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The Minister beside the Taoiseach has had a few Irish moments of his own.

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Why did the Taoiseach and his party vote in favour of that decision?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It takes time, diligence and patience in order to obtain a sense of trust, confidence and belief from others to the effect that they should help us.

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If the Taoiseach listened to his party's banking expert, we would be in a completely different position. Deputy Mathews is a man of integrity.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That recognition has been achieved and we will continue with the discussions in order to bring about a situation where the level of debt to which Deputy Ross refers can be re-engineered in the country's interests.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I call Deputy Ross and ask for some order so that he might pose a question.

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I thank the Ceann Comhairle.

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Deputy Ross is one of the four angry booksellers.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

My request applies to Members on both sides of the House.

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How many tickets would the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, like for the show?

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Deputy Ross is the most unlikely angry young man I have ever come across.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I have called Deputy Ross.

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Those on the Government benches are seeking free tickets.

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I wish to respond in the first instance to Deputy Rabbitte for offering tickets to-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy will not respond to him.

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I assure the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, that there is a bigger audience at the Bord Gáis Éireann Theatre than there is here.

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Yes, but we have heard what Deputy Ross has to say before.

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Deputy Ross and his colleagues are having their own little version of The Gathering.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Ross has 45 seconds left in which to pose a question.

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The difficulty is that we refer to Greece as occupying a special position and to Ireland also occupying such a position. Greece's special position has gained it some unique concessions. Will the Taoiseach indicate whether he regards - I would like to hear a specific reply on this - Ireland's debt as unsustainable?

Second, as a result, will the Taoiseach look for the same terms as Greece and not just park the Anglo Irish Bank promissory note? Will he now declare that we are not paying it? He was nearly there in what he said. Will he declare that Ireland will not be paying it on 31 March 2013?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The intent of the Government is to achieve agreement on a re-engineering of the promissory note relating to the former Anglo Irish Bank. It could be regarded as the replacement of a bank overdraft with a very long-term mortgage. That is the context for the discussions between the Minister for Finance and his officials and the European Central Bank with a view to arriving at a situation where we would not have to pay €3 billion in March 2013. We said before-----

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Will the Government refuse to pay?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Discussions are continuing with the European Central Bank. The Deputy will have heard the public comments by other political leaders, other Ministers for Finance, the European Commission and the IMF. There is an understanding of the very great challenge placed on the backs of Irish taxpayers. We want this to be understood. The objective of the Government is to bring about a re-engineering of that level of debt before March 2013. This objective is the subject of much discussion and I hope it can be achieved in the interests of the people and the country. It is well recognised that since Ireland was first out of the gate, a very significant burden was placed on the people. It is a case of following through on that recognition to arrive at a decision in the interests of the country. What happened in Greece provides a menu of decisions made about the situation in Greece.

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It is not a bad menu and they get to have dessert too.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That menu is there for all to see and examine. Ireland is in a different space in this regard. However, there is a general understanding of what has been done in the case of Greece. Our discussions are about a concession in a different area, a re-engineering of the promissory notes.

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