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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Balbriggan primary care centre allegations

Summary

Mary Lou McDonald questions the Tánaiste about a briefing note allegedly linking the Health Minister, NAMA and a proposed Balbriggan primary care centre site, arguing that former Minister of State Róisín Shortall was treated unfairly. The Tánaiste cites an internal review denying political involvement, refuses to engage with what he calls privileged allegations, and repeatedly challenges McDonald to make them outside the House; procedural disputes and disorder dominate the exchange.

I, too, wish everyone who works in the Houses of the Oireachtas, the Deputies gathered in the Chamber and their families and those viewing proceedings at home a very happy Christmas. Nollaig shona daoibh go léir.

On 26 September, Deputy Róisín Shortall resigned her junior Ministry in the Department of Health. On 25 October, almost one month later, I raised with the Tánaiste concerns about a meeting on 20 April last between the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, and representatives of the National Asset Management Agency on the primary care centre in Balbriggan. On that occasion, the Tánaiste defended the Minister and informed me he could not track the diaries of every Minister, the persons Ministers met, when they met them and so forth and nor did he have any wish to do so. It now emerges from the briefing document prepared for the Minister prior to the meeting with NAMA, a copy of which my party acquired through a freedom of information request submitted by Deputy Pearse Doherty, that the specific site in Balbriggan was discussed at the meeting. The site, as the Tánaiste is aware, is owned by a Fine Gael Party supporter, Mr. Seamus Murphy and is to be developed by Fine Gael Party donor, Mr. A. J. Noonan. It was also used by the Minister as an election office. The Minister was well aware that his Fine Gael Party colleagues were concerned to develop the site as a primary health care centre. In contact between the developer and HSE it was indicated that the prospect of developing it was in jeopardy. To use the words of the relevant e-mail, which was sent on 17 April, the developer was making "a last throw of the dice". The site was then discussed on 20 April at a meeting between the Minister and representatives of the National Asset Management Agency. While the specific address is not given, it is very clear where the site is located. The document states: "A developer has identified a site in the town which is being used as a surface car park." Lo and behold, on the night before the priority list of primary care centres was to be announced, the Balbriggan location found its way on to the list of primary care centres. This decision confers considerable financial advantage on both the owner and developer.

The document my party has acquired openly contradicts the Minister's claim that he had no hand, act or part in the selection of the Balbriggan site. Some months on from these events, does the Tánaiste believe the Minister's claim of innocence in this escapade? Does he still believe he is suitable to continue in office as Minister for Health? In light of the information that has since come into the public domain, does the Tánaiste still have confidence in the Minister and does he still give him the balance of credibility over and above that of Deputy Róisín Shortall?

Comment on this

This is trawling over material that has been discussed in the House a number of times. I told the House previously that I had discussed this issue with the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, the Secretary General of his Department and chief executive officer of the Health Service Executive who assured me that there was no political involvement of any kind in any individual site.

An internal audit of primary care centres was conducted. A review of departmental files and other documents was undertaken in early October by the internal audit unit, IAU, at the request of the Secretary General. The purpose of the review was to determine whether any documentation generated from 2011 to date would connect the Minister, Deputy Reilly, any of his advisers or anyone acting on behalf of the Minister to the selection of sites for the proposed primary care centres in Balbriggan and Swords. The scope of the request did not relate to any policy decision to locate a centre in either town. The checks carried out by the internal audit unit confirmed that no documentation relevant to the request was found.

The report, which issued to the Secretary General on 9 October, referred to his request for the internal audit unit to ascertain whether any documentation generated from 2011 to date was available within the Department that would connect the Minister, Deputy Reilly, and-or his advisers or anyone acting on his behalf to the selection of sites for the proposed primary care centres in Balbriggan and Swords. The internal audit unit asked the primary care unit and the offices of the Minister and the former Minister of State, in addition to the Minister's three advisers, to undertake a search with a view to locating any relevant documentation. All parties advised the IAU that no records relevant to the request could be located.

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The Tánaiste's monotonal response does not take from this scandal. I have in my hand the briefing document prepared for and used by the Minister at that meeting on 20 April. Explicitly in the document, black on white, there is a mention of a particular site, namely, 68-70 Dublin Street. This is the site in the town centre that is currently being used as a surface car park.

I am astonished on two fronts. First, the Minister, Deputy Reilly, and the Government have the brass neck to act in such an improper fashion. Second, but perhaps more astonishingly, the Tánaiste will not just stand by this Minister, but by these obvious, sharp, corrupt practices that cost the Tánaiste a junior Minister.

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That is outrageous.

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We said at the time, and let me repeat it-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I am sorry, but we cannot make allegations. Be careful.

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I challenge Deputy McDonald to say that outside the House.

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Let me say this-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We cannot make allegations inside the Chamber.

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-----and I said it at the time-----

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

Deputy McDonald should withdraw her "corrupt" remark.

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The wrong Minister resigned. The former Minister of State, Deputy Shortall-----

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

On a point of order-----

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-----was punished for doing the right thing.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I am sorry, but a point of order has been requested.

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She was punished for standing by proper standards in public office.

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

On a point of order-----

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The Tánaiste rewards another senior Minister by turning away his gaze and by not tracking the Minister's activities. This is a disgrace.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I am sorry, but a point of order has been requested. Will Deputy McDonald please stop?

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

Is it now allowable in the House to make allegations under the cover of privilege that cannot be made outside the House without litigation? Has that become standard practice in the House and will it be practised in future? Are our Standing Orders going to be amended to remove privilege from people who use the cover of privilege-----

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On a point of order-----

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

-----to make allegations against the character of other people in the House?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will Deputy Durkan please resume his seat?

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

Since when has this been the standard practice?

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On a point of order, I was thrown out last week for doing what Deputy Durkan just did.

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Exactly. The Deputy was.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

No.

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The Ceann Comhairle threw me out for doing the exact same thing.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Chair has ruled many times that allegations of a serious nature against an officeholder can only be made by way of a substantive motion in the House-----

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

Correct.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

-----and not by way of innuendo or otherwise across the floor of the House.

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It is not innuendo. I have the document in front of me.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I have made this point quite clear.

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Repeat the charge outside the House.

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It is unprecedented that Leaders' Questions would be interrupted by a point of order. That has never before been allowed in the House.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We are over time. If Deputy McDonald would just put her question, she has only one minute to ask a supplementary.

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I am not working on the basis of innuendo or supposition.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We do not-----

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I have in my hand the briefing note that came from the Department-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy can table a motion.

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-----and it states very clearly that a particular site-----

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Go outside and say that.

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-----was discussed with NAMA, the same site that the Minister slipped onto the list. My question to the Tánaiste is simply this - what will he do about this whole scenario from which he has deliberately turned his face?

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Is this smoke and mirrors? Changing the facts.

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There is a Sinn Féin tactic-----

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-----which is to enter the House, wave a piece of paper around, claim that it has the goods on-----

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It is a departmental briefing note.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Please, Deputy.

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Please, listen to the answer.

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What about the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte?

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It is a Sinn Féin tactic to enter the House-----

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It is called opposition.

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-----wave a piece of paper around, claim that it has the goods on us and then make all kinds of allegations, including of sharp, corrupt practices and so on. Sinn Féin has a neck.

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Fair play, Tánaiste.

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A bit like the Tánaiste's neck.

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So much illegal activity. How many bodies are buried on this island because of Sinn Féin? It has a neck.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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What about the dodgy fivers?

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It enters the House-----

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The Tánaiste has a brass neck.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will the Deputies please allow the Tánaiste?

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It enters the House with its orders-----

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What about the Tánaiste's past?

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-----from Belfast to-----

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Was the Tánaiste ever in the IRA?

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-----make allegations.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputies, please.

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There is a long-established way. If a Deputy wants to make an allegation against any Member of this House, there is a way in which-----

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I want the Tánaiste to answer the question. He is the Tánaiste, is he not?

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No, that is the trick.

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The Deputy wants to twist the facts. Repeat that charge outside this House.

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Is Deputy Gilmore not the Tánaiste? Does he-----

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The Minister for Health has challenged the Deputy to say outside of this House what she just said inside it. Say it outside the House and stand over it. Do not enter the House and abuse its privilege.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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It is called opposition.

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If she wants to put any question to the Minister for Health in respect of any meeting he has had, I am sure that he will answer it, but this is a clever little trick.

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No, the trick is on the Tánaiste's side, as he will not answer my question. What will he do about this?

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Sinn Féin enters the House waving allegations about the Minister for Health and then tells me to answer, and if I do not-----

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Why does the Tánaiste not ask his own former Minister of State?

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The Tánaiste makes allegations as well.

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Ask your question. Make your allegation outside of the House if you want to stand over it.

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Is this how the Tánaiste responded to Deputy Shortall when she raised the matter with him?

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He is avoiding the question.

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If Deputy McDonald wants to stand over that allegation, she should make it outside of the House.

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Right. We have the Tánaiste now.

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If she wants to put the question to the Minister for Health, she should put it to-----

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No, I put the question to the Tánaiste.

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These are Leaders' Questions.

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She should put any question she wants to the Minister for Health-----

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I asked the Tánaiste the questions because the Minister will not answer them. The Tánaiste is a disgrace.

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-----but she should not come in here swinging around political allegations. She is stooping to a new low.

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It is called opposition.

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Deputy McDonald is wrong about Mr. Noonan. He is not Fine Gael.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

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