Somewhere in the country today, there may well be a victim of rape, incest or abuse who is contemplating facing a tormentor in seeking justice and retribution. However, recent decisions by the Central Criminal Court send out a very disturbing message. As part of a Parliament and society, we must encourage people who have been abused and betrayed by loved ones or this State; they should know that if they come forward, they will be listened to and justice will be sought. They will be believed.

Does the Taoiseach agree that the sentence handed down by the Central Criminal Court-----

I must interfere, although I do not like doing so. This is a matter that we-----

I am not questioning the legitimacy-----

The Judiciary is entirely separate.

I accept that.

Decisions of the court are entirely separate.

People are outraged.

That was the reason I did not allow topical issues today relating to this matter, as it was on advice I have been given. I gathered it would be the case. We cannot discuss in here decisions of the court or criticise those who make those decisions.

I respect that ruling and I am not here to question the legitimacy of the Central Criminal Court. What I am raising are the legitimate concerns of the Irish people.

Hear, hear.

Hear, hear.

There is significant anger at this sentencing. I do not wish to make a political football out of this issue and the suffering of Ms Fiona Doyle. Our duty is to respond, and we must do so. Does the Taoiseach agree this is a major concern and we must do something about it? Does he agree that we must establish a sentencing council and that the Court of Criminal Appeal needs to have permanent specialist judges to adjudicate on sentencing? We must have clear guidelines for the areas of sentencing for crimes of rape and abuse.

This State has betrayed children before and apologised but we need to encourage people so that they know if they come forward, they will be listened to, believed and vindicated. What is the Government's response regarding the terms and concerns surrounding the sentencing arrangements, particularly for rape, as was evident in this case? It is an appalling, horrific-----

I am sorry but the Deputy cannot ask the Taoiseach, a Minister or anybody else to give an opinion on a decision of the court. We are talking about a judgment of a duly constituted court.

I am talking about the general-----

They cannot be subjected to review or discussion in this House, as the House is not a judicial body.

It is a general issue.

I have to put that on record. That is the position.

May I raise the issue of legislation in terms of mandatory sentencing?

No, the Deputy may not do so. I am sorry but I have to rule out his question as I would be in dereliction of my duties if I were not to do so.

I accept that.

On a point of order-----

Deputies may not make points of order during Leaders' Questions. I ask speakers to adhere to the ruling of the Chair on this issue and avoid placing the House in a very embarrassing position.

I do not wish to have a difficulty with the Chair but the issue I am raising-----

The Deputy has been around for long enough to know that decisions of the courts may not be discussed in this Chamber.

I have been a Member of the Oireachtas for 20 years and it beggars belief that Deputies cannot raise an issue of legitimate public concern.

While that may be the case, the Oireachtas is not a judicial body. The Judiciary is independent of the Legislature.

Deputy Kelleher should know better.

The substance of the issue is the need for a sentencing council. The Oireachtas must examine the issue of providing for mandatory sentencing and clear guidelines-----

Deputies may not refer to individual cases.

-----to ensure consistency in sentencing. We must offer encouragement to people who have been raped and abused in order that they will know that if they come forward, they will be vindicated and fair sentences will be imposed on the perpetrators.

We cannot interfere with the judicial decisions of an independent court. The Deputy cannot ask the Taoiseach or anyone else in this Chamber to give an opinion on a court decision as the Oireachtas is not a judicial body.

He is not referring to a specific case but the need for a sentencing council.

If the Taoiseach wishes to respond, I ask him to recognise the constraints under which the House operates.

May I make a point of order, please?

Yes.

Without referring to a specific case, can this issue be dealt with under promised legislation?

It is a matter for the Government of the day to decide whether it is bringing forward legislation.

In that case, it would be in order for me to raise the matter.

It is a matter for the Government of the day as to whether it brings forward legislation. However, the House cannot debate a decision of a court, as Deputy Adams is well aware.

I admire the courage of Fiona Doyle in doing what she did. This case, which involves the defilement of a child and the continuous rape of that child over a ten year period, has filled the nation with revulsion. I would like to believe that others who are or have been subjected to rape, incest or crimes of this horrific nature will not lose the courage to come forward and say their piece.

They will certainly lose courage after yesterday.

The position is that the sentence in the case in question has been referred to the Court of Criminal Appeal for priority assessment. The issue of mandatory sentencing for particular crimes has been raised in the House over the years. It is a matter for the Government to reflect on the matter in so far as introducing legislation is concerned.

I accept the Ceann Comhairle's clarification of this issue. It is not open to me or anyone else in the House to refer to the nature or extent of the sentence.

I wish to repeat that Fiona Doyle's decision to bring the case to public scrutiny is an act of courage on her behalf and one for which I admire her. As I stated, the case has filled people with a sense of revulsion. It has been referred to the Court of Criminal Appeal as a priority and I trust the court will deal with it as a priority.

In response to the question raised by Deputy Kelleher, I hope that others who are abused or horrifically defiled, as occurred in the case in question, will not lose courage and will speak out as Ms Doyle has done.

Fiona Doyle showed great courage and bravery in coming forward. The issue of concern, however, is the potential fallout of the case for people who may be very concerned about being brave, coming forward, waiving their right to privacy and opening up to the world about the torment they endured. The House has a clear obligation to act. As I pointed out, the State reneged on its right, responsibility and duty to protect children in its care and in the care of others who were acting on its behalf. An apology has been made in this House and a referendum on children has been passed. Parliament and citizens must now ensure that all those who have been or are being raped and abused have confidence that if they walk into a Garda station or contact a social worker, they will be vindicated and the State will protect their rights and ensure they receive justice in the courts. I am not questioning any individual court case but the effect of court cases can be to set a precedent or damage how we judge ourselves and view crimes in society. Our children need protection.

One of the statements made by this Government was the appointment of a senior Cabinet Minister dealing with children and youth affairs. I commend the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs on the work that has been done to date in drawing all the elements of child care and related issues into a single Department, holding a referendum on children, bringing together the excellent work being done by the Garda vetting bureau in legislation dealing with mandatory reporting and addressing a range of issues related to the welfare of children, both now and in the future.

The issue raised by Deputy Kelleher in respect of the fallout from this particular case is one that concerns us all. The case has been referred to the Court of Criminal Appeal for priority treatment and I hope it will be dealt with as a matter of urgency. In that sense, the sentence will not be finally dealt with until the court makes its decision.

The courage of Fiona Doyle who went through horrific and barbaric treatment as a young girl speaks for itself. Few people can speak in the way she has been able to speak and the case has filled people with a sense of revulsion. Unfortunately, however, it is not the only such case that has come to light over the years. Deputy Kelleher will be well aware of other horrific cases.

From my perspective, it was very important to be able to establish, at government level, a senior position dealing with the legislation that will protect all our children in the future. This is a horrific case from the past, which is not yet over. From speaking to people all over the country today, revulsion is a word that has come to people's minds and tongues as a result of what happened in this case.

I hope the Court of Criminal Appeal will deal with the matter that has been referred to it in the shortest possible time. I admire Fiona Doyle and hope she speaks for all those young people who have been the victims of incest, rape and brutality, which have a devastating impact on their mental strength and relations with their families. Deputy Kelleher is clearly aware of the constraints I face in this regard.