On Sunday, the Taoiseach took to the airwaves to threaten public sector workers with pay cuts. Last week, at the outset of negotiations on a successor to the Croke Park agreement, the Government warned of compulsory redundancies in the public sector. This is not the way to negotiate in good faith. The case for public sector reform is unanswerable and is accepted by those in the public and Civil Service. Equally, the case for finally tackling the excessive pay and pensions of a tiny minority at the top is now unanswerable. Ministers, special advisers and senior civil servants all need to have their pay cut. To add insult to injury, we have seen today reports of former taoisigh and former Ministers, many of whom presided over the economic collapse in this State, on lavish pensions.

The protection afforded to this class of person contrasts starkly with the plans of the Minister, Deputy Reilly, to slash the pay and conditions of graduate nurses and midwifes. The Government is expecting these graduates to accept yellow pack jobs and greatly reduced pay rates within the health service. What happened to equal pay for equal work? The Minister has indicated that he intends to extend this yellow pack strategy scheme to other workers in the health service. Public sector reform will not be achieved by driving down wages for those on the bottom. In the course of the negotiations for a Croke Park agreement nua, will the Government defend pay equity? Will it defend equal pay for work of equal value? Will it finally deal with the glaring issue of the tiny minority within the public and Civil Service who are overpaid and over-pensioned?

I reject the Deputy's charge of threatening public service workers. We have set out a very clear position of mandating the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and his officials to negotiate with the unions in respect of savings that need to be made in the public sector, amounting to an additional cumulative amount of €1 billion between now and 2015. Those discussions are under way. I have made it perfectly clear, as is normal practice, that we would much prefer to have this by consent and agreement. I commend all of those who have changed structures in the public sector, in delivering front-line services with reduced numbers in changed environments. I have also made the point, as the Deputy is well aware, that the Government reserves the right to legislate for the savings that are to be acquired if they cannot be reached by consent and agreement. Our preference is that they would be reached by consent and agreement. I am glad that the negotiations, while they are obviously challenging and in a challenging environment, are making good headway.

I reject the Deputy's charge of doing down the opportunity for graduate nurses, who were trained in this country, to work in hospitals in this country. The two-year contract offered outside the framework agreement of ceilings for employment is an opportunity for men and women as trained nurses -----

Shame on the Taoiseach.

-----to work in Irish hospitals on a salary of €22,000 to €25,000, which is equivalent to what young accountants or teachers would get, in order to acquire experience and opportunities to build on their training in Irish hospitals and not to have the prospect of going abroad. I would have thought that somebody such as Deputy McDonald would welcome that 1,000 extra jobs are being made available for Irish nurses in Irish hospitals. I also understand the Sinn Féin leader went abroad to have treatment under a health system in the United States. He is entitled to do that, but as I understand all Sinn Féin Deputies are earning the industrial wage, these things are difficult to understand fully.

A Deputy's personal health is his or her own personal business.

As for Deputy McDonald's running down of the quality of graduate nurses in Ireland,-----

We are talking about yellow pack nurses.

-----I say to her that is not the way to look at the training of young Irish men and women who graduate to become nurses. She is saying to them that they should not take up these jobs in Irish hospitals. These 1,000 jobs are outside the employment framework and I hope that many of those young trained nurses who have worked abroad and those from the three years' graduate classes involved will take up the opportunity to have experience and competence acquired in Irish hospitals. After all, they are the best-trained nurses in the world and we would like to see them work in our hospitals in their own country.

No doubt the Taoiseach is right to say that they are the best-trained nurses and midwives in the world, which is all the more reason to ensure we have them within our system. Sinn Féin Members met representatives of the nurses. In case the Taoiseach and his Government colleagues do not know, they are very angry about this scheme. They do not see it as some golden opportunity for them to contribute to the health service. They see it as a very cheap tactic to run down their terms and conditions and to run down the profession to which they are committed.

Shame on the Labour Party.

They were particularly outraged at the weekend when the Minister for Health suggested that if they were not happy with the scheme they should emigrate or perhaps get a job in a fast-food restaurant. Perhaps those are the kinds of choices the Government envisages for young highly qualified people. The position of equal pay for work of equal value is fundamental in any profession or job and must be defended.

The Taoiseach is clearly not minded to defend it. I hope those in the Labour Party might take a different position. The Taoiseach studiously avoided the core question I put to him in regard to high pay. The Government can slash the terms and conditions of a graduate nurse but will protect its own back and excessive salaries.

Thank you, Deputy.

The Taoiseach said that the Government is prepared to legislate for pay cuts for low paid public sector workers but it consistently refuses to legislate on the issue of the runaway gilt edged pensions-----

Hear, hear.

-----of former taoisigh and some of the Taoiseach's former colleagues. Why that contradiction? Surely, if the Government is to be fair there must be fair play all around. By any standard, young nurses, midwives and the health service are getting a raw deal from this Government.

Hear, hear.

What is involved in the health sector is a change in structures and the manner in which the health service is delivered. What the Government has set to be achieved before the end of life of this Administration is a situation wherein front-line services are operating more effectively and a system whereby money follows the patient-----

The patient has to follow the money.

Answer the question on high pay.

-----who can then get treatment based on medical needs rather than financial circumstances. We also propose to introduce universal health insurance for everybody rather than allow the situation which has obtained in this country for years to continue.

Answer my question.

Sinn Féin wants to perpetuate a system which involves agency nurses, premium payments and overtime.

That is not true.

What the Government wants to do-----

Pay yourselves more.

-----is to change the structure whereby agency nurses can be working one day in ICU, the next day in the respiratory treatment area and the following day in general wards. The system is not operating in the way it should. Savings made in this area will go directly to pay graduate nurses-----

They will be used to pay Government Members more.

-----who can gain experience and, based on their training, provide a first class service for patients.

What about your salary, Taoiseach?

What Deputy McDonald and others are saying, which I regret, is that these jobs are not suitable for young nurses. We are creating 1,000 jobs in Irish hospitals for graduate nurses, whom I hope will take up those positions. It is always the case, Deputy McDonald, that the people inside the system who are being paid to deliver the quality service often complain about it. The service will not be delivered in the manner we want unless the structure is changed. What the Government is doing, outside the framework for employment numbers-----

What about the excessive salaries of Government Members?

-----is targeting redundancies in the areas of education, health, agriculture and back office administration while at the same time increasing numbers on the front-line service through the employment of graduate nurses.

What about the Garda?

The Government is shafting nurses.

I would also point out that Government has already made decisions in the budget which will impact on those on high salaries, not only in respect of people who have properties valued in excess of €1 million-----

Get off the stage.

-----but in respect of pension reliefs for those with pensions in excess of €60,000, which, as the Deputy is well aware, will bring in €250 million. It is a case of not having increased income taxes for everybody but of making those who earn more pay more.

It is a case of the Government protecting itself.

That is equitable and fair and will be seen to be so.

As regards the former politicians to whom Deputy McDonald referred-----

Colleagues.

-----I do not speak for them. I commend all those who did abide by the agreement. I listened to the news this morning and heard the names mentioned. This Government has made decisions for the future in respect of all politicians, including the abolition of severance pay and the reduction in salaries, which will impact on pensions. Sinn Féin only wants to pick out issues which it thinks will make news for it. That is not how it is going to be.

Westminster salaries.

Sinn Féin Members could accept the normal industrial wage and hand the remainder of their salaries back to the Exchequer instead of putting it into its party coffers.

Deputies, please. I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

Take it easy Einstein.

Deputy Tóibín is no Einstein.

Deputies, please allow Deputy Boyd Barrett to speak.

Members on this side are not out of control.

I am not addressing Deputy Healy-Rae. Do not be adding to the chorus. I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

The Whip is out of control.

The Deputy will have to get a permit.