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Dáil
‹ Order of Business

Use of guillotine on legislation

Summary

Micheál Martin condemns repeated guillotining, saying 67 amendments to the Local Property Tax Bill went undebated. The Taoiseach defends the Government’s record, recalls Fianna Fáil’s property-tax plans, and promises to examine ways of allowing more effective legislative debate.

The programme for Government included a commitment "to tackle the huge overuse of guillotines to ram through non-emergency legislation". For the past year and, again last evening, the Taoiseach decided to use the guillotine to ram through non-emergency legislation. The latest instalment was the Finance (Local Property Tax) (Amendment) Bill. The upshot of that was no discussion took place on amendments and the Minister for Finance made it clear he would not accept amendments that had not been debated. Not one amendment, therefore, was debated last evening. That follows a long line of other measures. A property tax Bill was rammed through before Christmas in a matter of hours and a social welfare Bill was rammed through also before Christmas in approximately two hours. We could not even discuss the cut to the respite care grant and so on.

The status of this Parliament is at a low ebb. The Government is treating it with contempt.

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There was a two-hour filibuster last night on the Title of the Bill.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Ciúnas.

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Members wanted to discuss amendments last night, for example, relating to exemptions for those in mortgage arrears or negative equity, social welfare recipients, people on low incomes and those who paid stamp duty between 2000 and 2012 from the impact of the property tax. Yesterday, there was a big row about this. It is a serious issue for the entire Dáil. Members do not want to disrupt the House in the manner that happened yesterday. However, on the other side, it is not difficult to understand why people are moved to object in the strongest terms to how the Dáil is organised and structured in terms of a political input to the extent that anything that seems to be unpopular or whatever is gotten out of the way as quickly as possible without any capacity to debate anything or to hear arguments and counterarguments.

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We copied Fianna Fáil.

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That has been going on for the past year and a half. The Taoiseach promised a democratic revolution.

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We got rid of 60 Fianna Fáil Members.

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The programme for Government has a commitment to tackle the huge overuse of guillotines to ram through non-emergency legislation. A total of 67 amendments were tabled to last night's Bill and not one of them was discussed.

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The Opposition filibustered on the Bill's Title.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Order, please.

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The Government filibustered on the social welfare Bill.

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In terms of how the House was ordered, the reason for this, according to the Taoiseach yesterday, was that the Revenue Commissioners will issue letters relating to the property tax next Monday. That suggests that the Parliament is some way down on the lower rung of the ladder in terms of priority in that the administration of something is more important than the policy context and before the Bill has even been put through, the letters have been lined up to be sent out and elected Members do not count. In other words, there is no point in having it debated in the House because the letters are ready to go out.

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

It is a bit late to be appealing for democracy. When the Deputy was in government, the guillotine was used every day.

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It let us leaflet drop.

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The Opposition spent two hours on the Title of the Bill.

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That is not good enough and I say this as a Member of the Dáil as well as a leader of a political party in the Dáil.

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When will the Taoiseach implement that aspect of the programme of Government to which he signed up?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Sometimes I wonder about-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----Deputy Martin coming in and making these Second Stage speeches.

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The Taoiseach should answer the question.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Does he not remember just over two years ago when he was on this side of the House?

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The Taoiseach is a mirror image.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Martin comes in here with his rant every week about the property tax.

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I never used the guillotine as a Minister.

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The Deputy should respect the Parliament now and listen to the answer.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

In Fianna Fáil's national recovery plan in November 2010 before the troika arrived there, Fianna Fáil planned to introduce a property tax in 2012 and to raise €530 million from it in 2013. That is a fact.

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Shame on Deputy Martin.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy wants to forget this fact conveniently.

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It would have been debated.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Later in 2010 during its negotiations with the IMF, about which it did not tell anybody, Fianna Fáil agreed that the introduction of the property tax before the end of 2011 and to increase it again in 2012. The Deputy comes in here and mouths off about all the amendments he wanted to put down to the property tax.

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Is that not fair?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I recognise that last Friday, two extra hours were offered for debate on this.

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That was Second Stage.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

An hour was wasted yesterday with the semantics and game playing that went on. The fact of the matter is that when he had his opportunity, he was not to be trusted on these matters.

I will answer his question on the guillotine. I do not like to do this but the Deputy and the House will have to consider this. We are going to have to look at the way we can do business more effectively in here. Later in the autumn-----

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The Government does not talk to anybody. It just rams everything through.

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Will the Deputy listen?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Hold on a second. The Deputy does not want to listen. That was his problem when he was in government. He did not listen.

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I am listening too much to nothing two years on.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We are going to have to make a decision. The people will make their decision later in the year about the abolition of the Seanad but I consider that we need to look at the way legislation is drafted here, the priorities accorded to the legislation in the country's interest and what it is that really is a priority.

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But we do not even get a chance to discuss legislation.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It may well be that the House might have to sit five days a week.

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That is all blather out of the Taoiseach. He is never here five days a week, obviously.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is not all blather because if the Deputy believes that he wants all the time to debate all the legislation-----

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Not all the time, just a reasonable amount.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is not possible to do it within the hours we currently operate.

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The Government had three days two weeks ago on a motion of self-congratulation but only two hours last night on an issue that affects everybody in this country.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We are going to have to operate differently. The Deputy rises every morning and he wants further time to debate further issues. He will have to make his mind up and if he continues not to listen, as he has always done, that is his prerogative.

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The Government is organising the House to suit itself and the Taoiseach should not give any pretence about that because he does not believe in reform.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It has been his trademark to talk everybody down if he can. If the Deputy does not want to listen, that is his prerogative.

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That is the Taoiseach's prerogative. That is what the Taoiseach is at, misleading people on a continuous basis.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am quite prepared to discuss with him and the House how he and everyone else can consider how we can get the best effect out of the time we have.

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The Taoiseach is not prepared to discuss it.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputies want to take a stand and have their say on various issues, none more frequently than Deputy Martin.

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He is not being in the least sincere.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy was the arch-architect of a property tax that was to bring in €530 million. He now denies this.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I call Deputy Gerry Adams.

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Fianna Fáil left a mess for us to clean up. I cannot believe its Deputies can come into the Chamber, day after day, and make these accusations, having destroyed the country.

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I am elected. That is the reason I am here.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputies, please.

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Deputy Martin should be ashamed of himself.

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Does the Deputy want democracy?

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Every day, we have the same three stooges, Deputies Martin, Ó Cuiv and O'Dea, on the Opposition Front Bench.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputies, please calm down. I called Deputy Adams and I ask other Members to show respect to the speaker.

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I am not a communist by the way.

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Someone should give Deputy Griffin his Weetabix.

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