During the past week there was much discussion of the mortgage arrears crisis, preparing the scene for yesterday's announcement by the Government. The question of repossessions loomed large in that discussion, worryingly so for many families. The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, have been at pains to play down any prospect of repossessions. However, the civil servants tell a different story and paint a different picture. Last week the Secretary General, Mr. John Moran, announced that there would be and would have to be more repossessions and was attacked in a rather cowardly manner by Labour Party Ministers and senior figures in the Labour Party.

In response to yesterday's announcement Mr. Matthew Elderfield, Deputy Governor of the Central Bank, was even more clear when he said repossessions had to be expected to rise significantly. He went further by saying that even those families who were engaging with their lenders might end up losing their homes. The reason he is saying this is that the Government's proposals announced yesterday essentially put the banks in the driving seat, about which there is no question. Banks are being given additional powers to set aside the code of conduct. Legislation will be passed to facilitate repossessions of family homes and, overall, the momentum is unquestionably towards repossessions. In addition, there are other issues, including people losing their tracker mortgages if deals are done with the banks. The Government essentially believes that if the banks are put in the driving seat and given the wherewithal, this crisis encompassing more than 182,000 people in arrears will be resolved. There is an essential flaw in that analysis because who will independently oversee the deals that are going to be done on behalf of mortgage holders? There is a huge disconnect between the official language and the reality for people on the doorstep, people who are in mortgage arrears and experiencing the banks coming at them in different ways.

I knocked on a door in Steeplechase in Ratoath yesterday and a gentlemen told me that three of his neighbours had received letters from the banks telling them that they had to sell their homes. This was on the day that the Taoiseach had told me in the House that essentially repossessions were not going to happen, except very extreme circumstances.

The Deputy is over time.

On LMFM yesterday the Tánaiste was similarly lauding this plan. The bottom line is that there are 23,500 people with mortgages in arrears for more than two years. That is very similar to the targets the banks have been given. These 20,000 people are clearly in the firing line for repossessions because the banks have to make offers and proposals. There is no definition of what a deal or a resolution is and no definition of sustainability. Sustainability has to be about-----

A question, please, Deputy.

-----the capacity of borrowers to survive after such a deal is made in their daily lives and keeping them and their families together.

When Deputy Michael McGrath and our finance team put together a debt settlement office Bill, which suggested the establishment of an independent office, the Minister accepted-----

Any chance of a question?

I am putting it.

I have asked the Deputy to do so.

We are five minutes into the business of the House.

Order, please.

The Minister accepted that legislation, in principle. Will he indicate, first, what Matthew Elderfield means by a significant number of repossessions and, second, will he provide, independent of the banking system in its entirety, for independent oversight on behalf of the borrower and mortgage holder because, without question, the imbalance in the relationship between the banks and borrowers------

I call the Minister for Finance.

-----is confirmed and exacerbated by the announcements made yesterday?

First, I congratulate Pope Francis on his elevation and wish him a very long and successful reign in that very high office. I am sure the people of Ireland wish him very well, as I know this House does.

We will have the embassy reopened shortly.

To turn to the business in hand, there will be independent oversight of all these arrangements. As the Deputy knows, the Central Bank is independent in the performance of its functions and has taken on the task of helping to design these arrangements and monitoring them as they are rolled out. As well as this, it is the licensing authority for the banks and, therefore, is in best position to insist on its policies being carried out, and it will do so.

On the various reflections in the Deputy's introductory comments on the repossessions issue, the position is, as he is well aware, that since the Elizabeth Dunne judgment in 2009, there has been a lacuna in the law and there have been no compulsory repossessions. The statistics are for people handing back the keys or agreeing, by arrangement, to surrender homes, but what we are talking about is compulsory repossession. There has not been any because the law does not enable one to do this. If the level of repossession is zero and there is only one repossession in the course of next year, that will be a big increase. The Government has made it absolutely clear that there is a sequence of interventions, cascading down from interest only arrangements to repossession, but that repossession will be used only in extremis. It is not considered there will be a significant increase or a significant amount of repossessions of family homes. However, I envisage repossessions in the buy-to-let sector.

That is a different category. They are commercial investments, people are collecting rents and if they are not servicing their mortgages the best thing for the economy is that these investments are sold to people who can service them.

I call Deputy Micheál Martin. He has one minute left for a supplementary question.

First of all-----

The Deputy has one minute and I am timing him now.

Is Deputy Byrne the new Ceann Comhairle?

I am timing the Deputy.

We need someone to do the job.

Are the Labour Deputies afraid to go to County Meath? They are all here this morning.

His minute is up.

There are more of us than there are of Fianna Fáil.

Could Members respect the person in possession please?

There have been approximately 950 repossessions according to Mathew Elderfield's comments yesterday, and 38 forced repossessions in the last quarter. I do not accept the point that the Central Bank in the context of its functions and remit, and the imperatives and orthodoxy by which it abides will tip the scales in favour of the mortgage holder-----

The Deputy is glorifying it.

Who is the Deputy suggesting would do it?

-----or that there will be a genuine independent approach to resolving the issue which allows sustainability for the mortgage holder.

Is he suggesting a former Fianna Fáil Minister could do it?

The Tánaiste, Deputy Gilmore, was very clear about what should be done before the general election because his view was that for the duration of the recession there should be no repossessions whatsoever.

The Deputy's time is up.

Deputy Stagg should listen to what he said.

He said it would be crazy for the banks to repossess and he wanted a guarantee that there would be no repossessions of family homes for the duration of this recession. He said it in this House and he put it very eloquently-----

Deputy Martin is making this up.

-----and articulately that it should be the case.

The Labour Deputies should calm down. We cannot hear them now.

My point is that when the deputy Governor of the Central Bank says there has to be a significant number of repossessions that does not tally with the language of only in extremis.

The Deputy is on double time now.

It does not tally with the Taoiseach's claim that it would be only in very extreme cases. There is something missing in the equation. The Secretary General of the Department of Finance, John Moran, is saying very clearly that there must be a significant number of repossessions. The Deputy Governor of the Central Bank is saying there must be a significant number of repossessions but the politicians on the Government side are telling us not to listen to any of that. They say the Secretary General spoke out of turn. According to the Labour Ministers he should never have said that.

This is a commentary. It is a history lesson. There must be some former Fianna Fáil Minister who can be independent.

There is a big gap or lacuna between the reality of what the Central Bank officials are saying and what the Minister and politicians are saying.

The Deputy should ask John Moran about that.

The people on the ground are telling us the reality of what is happening.

The Deputy has to conclude his comment and ask a question.

I have been interrupted non-stop. The people on the ground are telling us what is happening in their engagement with the banks.

It is a pity they did not tell the Deputy sooner.

The Government Deputies all know this. We have all heard about small business owners whose overdrafts were cut and so on. The same is now happening to mortgage holders.

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, this is not the chamber of a town council.

The Deputy has been speaking for about five minutes.

I invite people to go out and knock on doors and listen to what people are saying.

Dealing with the banks on a daily basis is very different from what officialdom says is happening. People are worried with very good reason because of the behaviour of the banks towards them.

They are better off not doing business with them.

I call on the Minister to reply.

What was the question?

Deputy Michael McGrath is the Fianna Fáil Minister for Finance.

When all the grandstanding is taken out of it we all know that people's inability to pay their mortgages is one of the big problems in Irish society. Yesterday, arrangements were announced which will ensure that systematically people will be offered solutions so that their mortgages will be sustainable. The Central Bank will monitor this and provide the targets. The targets announced yesterday were that by the end of June 20% of people with impaired mortgages will be offered solutions. By the end of September that will go to 30%, by Christmas it will have gone to 50% and the residue will be dealt with next year. These are offers to mortgage holders of ways to resolve their positions. Early in the summer the Central Bank will set targets of agreements that the banks must reach. We are at the stage where the number of people coming into arrears has lessened a great deal so we can quantify the problem and we are dealing with it systematically. The Department of Finance is involved but the driver is the Central Bank. People want solutions to their indebtedness. This is what we are doing.

Most of us here have had or have mortgages. One gets the money from the bank or building society and gives it the deeds of the house. The deeds are worth nothing unless there is a legal possibility of the collateral being realised by the banks. It does not work otherwise. If there is no provision in law for repossession there is no mortgage market. Then Deputy Martin would be back in here asking me why the mortgage market collapsed and why young people cannot get loans. Providing for it in law is different from saying this must be a primary option. It will be a residual option in extremis for the family home. That is what I have said.

That is at variance with what the officials are saying.

That is not what John Moran is saying.

Many people here were at the meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts and they know exactly what Mr. Moran said.

The Labour Ministers attacked him.

It is not what the Deputy said. I ask the Deputy to read the Official Report and he will see there what he said.

I have read it. He said our repossessions are much lower than anywhere else.