Just to pick up on the Minister's reference to the election of the Pope-----

Is Deputy Boyd Barrett wearing red shoes?

The Deputy is infallible too.

Deputy Boyd Barrett without interruption.

What does the Minister think of the significance of the Pope's choice of the name Francis?

The Minister will be aware that St. Francis was the son of a wealthy merchant who made the decision to repudiate his wealth.

A little like Deputy Boyd Barrett.

Order, please. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett, without interruption.

The bully boys are at it again.

Deputy Timmy Dooley is at it.

The Bertie boys are at it.

He was someone who chose to repudiate his wealth and walk among the poor. The Government might consider taking a leaf from his book. My main question relates in a way to something we might consider at the weekend when we commemorate another saint, St. Patrick. The occasion is a celebration of our national identity. As Minister in charge of Coillte and the State forestry, will the Minister for Finance take the opportunity of this weekend to reconsider the plan of the Government to sell off the harvesting rights to our State forestry, which is a symbol of our national heritage, history and culture? We will consider these things this weekend and many of us will probably walk in the State forests over the weekend. Does the Minister not believe it would represent the ultimate betrayal of our national heritage and culture to sell off the harvesting rights to our State forests, especially when it is likely that the people who would purchase them will be the same bankers and bondholders who bankrupted the country? Since this Government and the previous Government have agreed to pay off those gambling debts we could have the ultimate irony whereby we are forced to sell off our State forests to pay the debts of banks, and those self-same banks would end up owning the forests. Would it not be the ultimate betrayal of our national heritage, history and culture to sell this precious asset to Helvetia Wealth and its subsidiary, headed up by Bertie Ahern, the Irish Forestry Unit Trust, a consortium involving Bank of Ireland, Allied Irish Banks and Irish Life, or the China State Bank, which has expressed an interest? Is it not unacceptable to sell this precious resource to pay off the debts of bankers when those bankers would end up owning our State forests? Will the Minister for Finance use this weekend to reconsider the plan of the Government and give a commitment that it will retain the State forestry in public hands and use it in the interests of the people?

Further to the Government's decision that the harvesting rights to Coillte's forests be considered for sale, at the Government's request the National Treasury Management Agency, through its NewERA unit, has been actively engaged with Coillte, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine in recent months to examine the financial and other implications of a potential transaction. Evidence gathered from similar transactions completed in other jurisdictions indicates that a transaction could be structured in such a manner as to ensure the maintenance of the open forest policy, reflecting public access to recreational land, the preservation of existing replanting obligations and the incorporation of biodiversity requirements. This process has also included engagement with potential acquirers of harvesting rights when requested by them in accordance with the published Government protocol. The two Departments and NewERA have also met interested stakeholders to discuss their positions on the sale of harvesting rights.

That is not much of an answer from the Minister. He could indicate who those stakeholders are and who the Government is talking to about the sale of the forests. I asked the Minister whether he would reconsider and review the commitment of the Government to sell off the harvesting rights to our State forests. If we do this - if we sell off our forests - we will be the only country in Europe to have disposed of the harvesting rights to state forestry. In one country where this was partially done, Sweden, after several years there was a national outcry and then Sweden took the state forestry back into public ownership. In another country which has partially privatised state forests, New Zealand, one of the richest people in that country now owns a significant part of the state forestry and, as a result, there has been a significant loss of jobs and public access, a significant outflow of profits from the country and damage done to the country's sawmill industry.

Banks are not interested in protecting public access, national heritage or the long-term stewardship of forests. They are interested in turning a quick buck. I put it to the Minister that this is not the way to protect our forests. What we should do and what I call on the Minister to do is to retain our State forestry fully in public ownership and manage and develop it to create jobs and desperately needed revenue for the State, which could be done if it was managed properly and sustainably, something banks will never do.

This issue arises in the context of a requirement under the programme. As the Deputy is aware, the troika has been involved in this. The context is that some State assets are to be sold. For example, the National Lottery will be issued with a new licence and the non-network part of Bord Gáis Éireann and some of the ESB power generation assets are under consideration. It is also proposed that the harvesting rights of some of the forests will be sold. The issue is being examined. The arrangement with the troika is that half the proceeds will be used for investment in essential infrastructure in the country and the other half will be used to reduce the debt. No final decision has yet been made by Government. This is being led by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin. When he has a proposal he will bring it to Government and then final decisions will be made. However, at present it is certainly under consideration. Several announcements have been made previously and several questions have been answered.

Will the Minister for Finance review it?

Several questions have been answered in the House on the matter.