On Sunday last the Sunday Business Post revealed the draft guidelines for the personal insolvency service and outlined that debt deals might force mothers to stay at home and how women could be forced to give up their jobs. The article quoted the draft guidelines and stated: "Where a person is working and paying for child care as a consequence of his or her employment the cost of child care should not exceed the income of employment". When asked about this on Monday, the Taoiseach said he would find it incredible that somebody would say a person was required to give up work to meet these changes. That is what is outlined in the draft guidelines. Did the Taoiseach know what was going on and was he aware of the draft guidelines when he commented? Had he read the draft guidelines? He may in his comments have been trying to dampen the understandable anger at such a proposal.

What we are witnessing is a degree of incoherence in the Government in that the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, has confirmed the guidelines in his comments to The Irish Times and Irish Examiner and his understanding of the rationale behind them and the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, stated on "Newstalk" this morning that the guidelines might have been drawn up by a man and that that was the cause of it all. This incoherence adds to the anger and disbelief. I put it to the Taoiseach that what this represents is micro-management and nanny statism as it affects the personal insolvency service. This highlights the fundamental flaw that there is no independent oversight of the banks and how they propose to deal with customers and those in mortgage arrears. We are all hearing this from people across the country in their daily dealings with the banks.

The guidelines are anti-women, anti-family and anti-employment. In the first instance, child care programmes are essential for the development of children, while work is an essential part of people's lives. Under the personal insolvency framework, they should not be forced out of work. The sustainability of family income and careers will depend on security of tenure in employment in the medium to longer term. Will the Taoiseach confirm that people who earn less than their child care costs will not be forced to give up their jobs and that what is proposed in the draft guidelines will not be included in the guidelines when published?

I so confirm. The Government is probably the most open Administration in the past 50 years-----

We will take what the Taoiseach said with a pinch of salt.

Will Deputies, please, settle down?

-----in its focus on trying to sort out of the public finances, getting people back to work and providing opportunities for everybody.

Look at the Labour Party's leaflet.

I understand the extent of the challenge for hundreds of thousands, particularly women, every day in balancing child care costs with income, careers and determining household budgets. We all know the extent of the pressure on so many.

The Government cut child benefit.

I would like to clarify the position for the benefit of the people. As a result of the situation that has arisen which was inflicted on every household in the country owing to incompetence in the past-----

History, again.

-----people in mortgage distress must sit down with their lender - individually in the first instance. They may also decide to go to the personal insolvency agency to discuss their circumstances with an insolvency practitioner. However, the guidelines referred to by Deputy Micheál Martin have not yet been published. I want to make it clear to every man and woman in the county but particularly women that no guideline laid down by the personal insolvency agency will be mandatory or conditional for any person in having to give up his or her job in determining his or her position.

You are going to change the guidelines.

I want to make it perfectly clear that the guidelines will not impose conditions on anybody. No woman or man will be forced to give up his or her job, irrespective of the reality of his or her current income position, as distinct from the child care costs involved. I know young people, women in particular, including teachers and nurses, who are not earning as much as their current child care costs. It is a feature of the Government and the Ministers for Social Protection and Education and Skills to provide as much child care assistance and support as they can in the preschool year, after-school provision and so on. It is a fact of life that these challenges apply for a relatively short period. I again confirm for Deputy Micheál Martin and the House that the guidelines referred to which have not yet been published will not include as a condition that anybody, woman or man, will be required to give up a position, regardless of his or her circumstances.

I welcome the Taoiseach's confirmation that the guidelines will be changed.

They have not been published.

They have been published.

They have not.

If the Minister is splitting hairs, not in official form but they are available, which nobody is denying. They were revealed in the Sunday Business Post and no one has contradicted the fact that they are available. I welcome the Taoiseach's confirmation that the banks will be told to change the guidelines. However, what this speaks to is the fundamental flaw in the Government's approach to dealing with the issue of mortgage arrears. People need independent oversight of the banks which cannot be trusted to deal properly and in a reasonable manner with those in mortgage arrears.

When did the Deputy learn that?

When did the Minister of State learn it?

You should have learned it a long time ago.

Hold on, please

In addition, we are meeting people-----

We do not take fake notes either.

Can we have some quiet? Thank you.

Already, the mortgage subsidy has been cut by Government.

The people of the country are supporting the banks.

The Minister, Deputy Howlin, cut child benefit, which many mothers in this country did not appreciate. I would appreciate if he allowed me the opportunity to speak.

I ask the Minister please to refrain from commenting.

The bottom line is that last July we put forward a very constructive proposal in the Dáil, and the Government accepted the principle of what we said on Second Stage-----

Would the Deputy please put his question? He is over time.

-----when we put a Bill before the House to have an independent mortgage resolution process in place to mediate between the banks and the customers. We put that forward in the past 12 months in a constructive way, and the Taoiseach has ignored it and decided not to vote for that particular proposal.

Thank you.

The draft guidelines illustrate the degree to which-----

The Deputy is over time. Will he please put his supplementary question?

-----the banks are fundamentally going to ignore the Taoiseach's best intentions in terms of this issue, and they will proceed to look after their position first and not the people in mortgage arrears who are coming under increasing pressure from the banks on a daily basis.

The Taoiseach, without interruption please.

I want to award Deputy Martin first prize for the hindsight statement of the century - "you cannot trust the banks". Well done, Deputy Martin.

The Taoiseach is trusting them.

He is saying that he can do so.

Deputy Micheál Martin says we cannot trust the banks.

Your bestest pal, Seanie.

I want to put an end to the phantom debate-----

Phantom Taoiseach.

----- the Deputy has been trying to engineer here about guidelines imposing mandatory conditions upon people being required to give up their job.

Is Leo a phantom?

Let us put an end to that debate now. It does not apply. It will not apply and it cannot apply in any circumstance.

Is the Taoiseach going to change the regulations?

This Government understands exactly the scale of the balance and the challenge that hundreds of thousands of people face every day. The vast majority in the House here have gone through that in their own way, and we understand the difficulties so many, in particular women, have in balancing budgets to run households, pay their bills and meet their requirements. That debate is a phantom debate, Deputy. Let us end it now.

Tell the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, that. He said that it must be taken into account. That is what he said to The Irish Times.

I am telling him now-----

The Minister, Deputy Varadkar, said that it must be taken into account.

Deputy Martin, I will not ask you a third time to stay quiet please.

-----and the people of the country, and the women of the country, the position is that no guidelines, published or unpublished-----

That are published.

-----will require as a condition that somebody give up a job.

If those in mortgage distress in dealing with their lender are unable to work out a position or a resolution to their particular problem - we hope it could be worked out - and if they decide to go the personal insolvency agency, it is at that point that the practitioners will sit down with the person or persons involved and work out the range of what their living expenses should be but it is entirely a matter for the married couple, as the case might, to decide what it is that they wish to do.

Subject to the banks' veto.

Of course, there is recourse afterwards to the courts if they wish to do that. Let us put an end to any assertion-----

It is not up to the people. The banks are going to call it. The Taoiseach should not be disingenuous.

-----allegation or perception that somebody is going to be forced or required to give up a job in respect of a resolution.

I ask Deputies to settle down and to stop muttering. I cannot hear.

This Government is focused on getting people back to work.

Hear, hear.

How many people has the Government got back to work?

Those are phantom jobs.

Why in heaven's name would we be supportive of some phantom debate that says that people are going to be forced to give up employment? Nothing could be further from the truth. I want to put an end to that now and finish it.

I call Deputy Adams. Before the Deputy speaks, would you please-----

Deputy Kelleher, will you settle down, please? This is Leaders' Questions. Deputy Adams will put a question, which he is entitled to do, and the Taoiseach will answer it.

Will the Taoiseach answer the questions?

These are leaderless questions.

Will the Deputies cut out the side shows, please?