I call Deputy Mattie McGrath.

I have called Deputy Mattie McGrath. Please allow him to make his point.

Déanfaidh mé mo dhícheall. I call on the Tánaiste, especially given what we are hearing from the tallies in Meath East, to be the sensible voice in the Government and try to intervene in this unseemly mess that has descended into a shambles, that is, the situation regarding An Garda Síochána vis-à-vis the Commissioner and the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter. This is totally unacceptable and it has damaged morale to a great degree. It was very unfair to see so many gardaí yesterday outside the Taoiseach's office. This is something they do not want to do; they want to be serving their communities, but they are forced to come here. I am glad the Minister for Justice and Equality is here. He has not shown any semblance of understanding, appreciation or, I dare say, a modicum of respect for the members of An Garda Síochána, the men and women who protect us all on a daily basis. I have reliable information that the Minister has had several run-ins and disputes with the members of An Garda Síochána who are protecting his house and home.

That is untrue.

I am sorry, but I have to ask the Deputy please not to introduce personal matters into this.

I want to clear up this matter once and for all.

There are no personal matters involved.

I am speaking about the facts. The Minister has shown total disdain for An Garda Síochána. I want to kill the lie that gardaí walked out on the Croke Park agreement. Members of an Garda Síochána have no rights in any negotiations, whether on the Croke Park agreement or otherwise. They were there to listen to SIPTU, IMPACT and others who could tell them what was going on. They are like bridesmaids at a wedding.

This is one of the great speeches.

One could be forgiven at this stage for thinking we are living in a democracy. It is more like Russia or a military junta. Four senior officers of An Garda Síochána are being summoned today to Templemore. They have 130 years service between them. They are the only people who will be at the college in Templemore because the Minister has closed and laid waste to it, despite his promises. They will be disciplined.

That is a lie.

There is already a disciplinary procedure in An Garda Síochána, a strict one for dealing with matters such as this. They must pay monetary fines and whatever else.

A question, please.

What is their crime? They are representing their members in a desperate plea to get someone to listen. When will we have a situation where there will an independent mediator or, as happens in other countries, a board set up between the Minister, the Commissioner and the Garda Síochána to de-politicise the issues involved between Ministers of all hues? The Minister has shown no respect whatsoever. I have a serious question to ask. Has the Minister for Justice and Equality prevented members of An Garda Síochána from using the toilet facilities in his own home?

For goodness sake.

That is my question to the Tánaiste. People can laugh if they like, but it is a fact. Must gardaí bring a commode and use it outside the house?

We do not deal with personal issues here.

The Minister has taken cars from them-----

Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

They have to go back to the station. The Minister should respect An Garda Síochána.

Is that the issue of the day?

If we ever needed a demonstration of why the management of An Garda Síochána and matters relating to discipline in an Garda Síochána should not become matters for political debate, we have just had it.

The Minister has silenced them.

The management of An Garda Síochána, the day-to-day deployment of gardaí and discipline in An Garda Síochána are matters for the Garda Commissioner who enjoys the support of the Government in doing his job. I hope he also enjoys the support of Members. Deputy Mattie McGrath misunderstands the process by which members of An Garda Síochána, prison officers, members of the Defence Forces and members of disciplined forces in the State engage in negotiations. The Croke Park agreement negotiations or public service negotiations involve the trade unions, with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions representing the broad range of trade unions engaged in discussions with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. There is a separate set of discussions that runs parallel to these negotiations for the representative bodies of An Garda Síochána, the representatives of prison officers and members of the Defence Forces. In respect of the negotiations that have been completed, the representatives of prison officers and members of the Defence Forces continued with and participated in the negotiations. The Garda representative bodies decided to withdraw from the negotiations, as was their call. There is already a conciliation and arbitration scheme in place to deal with issues that arise in An Garda Síochána. The Government and the Minister are open to discussion. The Minister has had discussions with the Garda representative bodies and the Government is open to having discussions with them on the pay agreement. The representative bodies decided to withdraw from the talks. It was their right to make that decision. It is regrettable that they did so, but that is the call they made.

Given that he has spent a life involved in trade union activity, the Tánaiste knows, as I do, that the members of An Garda Síochána do not have full negotiating rights at the talks. They are depending on the messages they get back, perhaps two hourly, three hourly or on a half-day basis, from SIPTU, IMPACT or Mr. Liam Doran of the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation. That is a fact and there is no point in muddying the waters. Why are gardaí not allowed to be involved in the new insolvency legislation we are passing? They cannot be involved in that legislation either. We understand there are parameters. I accept that, but An Garda Síochána is being treated with disdain by the Minister on a continual basis. He stooped to a new low this morning. We all have wives and families, but to introduce his wife, as he did this morning, on the front line of defence is remarkable. Will it be his children next? What will he do next to try to damage the reputation of the members of the proud force that has served the country so well since its inception and that we all support? The Minister has not supported them in anything. He uses mealy-mouthed words in saying he is supporting them. I call on the Tánaiste to put in place an independent arbitrator for all our sakes and the sake of good relations and to try to sort out this mess. Will the Government consider setting up a management board in An Garda Síochána, such as that in place across the water and in other places, including Northern Ireland? It would be a buffer zone between politics and An Garda Síochána and preferable to vibes and making snide comments across the House at each other. There should be an independent board rather than involving the Commissioner who I believe is compromised by his continuing service beyond pension age. Others have taken court cases in that regard. Why does the Minister have such a prejudice against An Garda Síochána?

First, I ask the Deputy to reflect seriously on the personalised attack he has just made on the Garda Commissioner.

The Garda Commissioner is charged with the management and running of the Garda Síochána and he should have the support of every Member of this House. Whatever the political moment, it does not serve Dáil Éireann or Deputy Mattie McGrath well to make a personal attack, like he has just made on the Garda Commissioner. He should withdraw that.

One rule for all.

That is not the way this House operates.

The Government does not do personal attacks, does it not?

With regard to arbitration, there is already a conciliation and arbitration scheme in place for the Garda Síochána. On the issue of insolvency legislation, the Minister for Justice and Equality assures me there is no difficulty with gardaí being part of an insolvency arrangement. All of these issues can be discussed between the Garda representative bodies and the Minister. The way to resolve difficulties is by discussion and negotiation and where issues cannot be resolved, there is a conciliation and arbitration process.