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Dáil
‹ Order of Business

Order of Business

Summary

The Government proposed taking several Bills and referring the Revised Estimates to committees without debate. Opposition deputies objected to the late notice and alleged the Estimates concealed rejected Croke Park II pay measures; the Taoiseach said the committees would scrutinise them before a later plenary debate and that related legislation was under review.

Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is proposed to take No. a12, motion re presentation and circulation of Revised Estimates 2013; No. 24, National Lottery Bill 2012 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 1, Industrial Development (Science Foundation Ireland) (Amendment) Bill 2012 [Seanad] - Second Stage (resumed); and No. 25, Credit Reporting Bill 2012 - Second Stage (resumed). It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. a12 shall be decided without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a12 agreed to?

Comment on this

It is not agreed. First, this is an extraordinary proposition that only arrived late yesterday evening, without any discussion with the Whips and without agreement. We received a briefing note about this last evening. It states that the 2013 Revised Estimates for the public service contain a fuller, more detailed breakdown of spending by each Department and Vote than the spending totals announced in the Estimates for 2013 published in the expenditure report on 5 December 2012. The note goes on to say that the Revised Estimates largely follow the budget day allocations, which were quite regressive, with the pay deal recommendations by the Labour Relations Commission having been programmed into departmental Estimates. The note continues that they also allow for a number of technical adjustments and so forth.

What we are being asked to do this morning, despite the Taoiseach admitting just a few minutes ago that he planned to reflect and do no more than that, is to approve these Estimates and send them to the committee without anybody having an idea of how the savings will be realised.

Comment on this

No, the Deputy is wrong. Read the note.

Comment on this

In addition-----

Comment on this

The Deputy is wrong.

Comment on this

Will the Minister of State stop interrupting?

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Taoiseach will reply.

Comment on this

If the Minister of State had bothered to talk to people about it in advance, we might be in a far better position this morning. However, he rams everything through and talks to nobody. There has not been a Whips meeting since before Easter and there was no discussion with the Whips. The last paragraph of the note states: "As discussed last week, we are seeking the agreement of the Whips to place the above motion." No such agreement was sought.

Comment on this

That is wrong.

Comment on this

No such agreement was sought by anybody.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy, you are entitled to make a short contribution.

Comment on this

Given the gravity of the situation, I have been quite brief already.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

This is only about the taking of a motion. We are not dealing with the issue.

Comment on this

We are being asked to vote. The note states there is to be no debate or discussion. Given what has happened in recent days, at the very least we should have a debate on this motion and on the Revised Estimates for the public service. A full discussion in the House in plenary session is called for and warranted.

Comment on this

This matter should be given time for discussion and reflection, not least due to the turn of events and the decision by public sector workers to vote against Croke Park II. This is simply another sleight of hand on the part of the Taoiseach to slide something through on the nod, which appears to be the Taoiseach's and the Government's form.

Comment on this

Yesterday, the Taoiseach received a stinging rebuke from the trade unionists of this country to his pay proposals. Lo and behold, today the Taoiseach seeks to ram through the Dáil what appears to be a pre-emptive strike to cast in stone, before any negotiations or reflections, his agenda for imposing pay cuts on public sector workers. Any Revised Estimates that have a bearing on the discussions that may take place regarding public sector pay should be fully debated and scrutinised in this House. This appears to be a sleight of hand and pre-emptive strike to get us to rubber stamp something that should be fully debated and, most importantly, negotiated with the public sector workers of this country. I absolutely oppose the attempt to push this through.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy should calm down. It is incorrect to say that the Dáil is being asked to give approval to the Revised Estimates. What is being sought is approval to send the Revised Estimates to the relevant committees-----

Comment on this

With Croke Park II in them.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----for full discussion and to be returned to the House by the end of June, when there will be a plenary discussion on them. This has always been the practice with Revised Estimates. The reason for the short notice is that the Cabinet only approved them yesterday. The Whips were informed at 5 p.m. yesterday.

Comment on this

They were not informed.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The last paragraph the Deputy referred to was a discussion between the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform-----

Comment on this

There was an e-mail at 5.23 p.m. There was no discussion.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy asks everybody else to be quiet, but he continues to interrupt.

Comment on this

I am just seeking straightforward answers. The Taoiseach should have some respect for the House.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I will now put the question.

Comment on this

On a point of order, that is not what is happening here. We are being asked to refer to committees Revised Estimates that include Croke Park II, which has been rejected and is acknowledged by the Taoiseach to have been rejected.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

This is a technical motion.

Comment on this

How can a parliament deal with Estimates that clearly are not accurate or honest due to what has happened? The Taoiseach could deal little more straightly with the Opposition. The Chief Whip did not contact the Whips and there was no discussion.

Comment on this

There was an e-mail.

Comment on this

Sending an e-mail at 5.30 p.m. yesterday is not a discussion. It is reflective of the dismissive manner in which the Government treats this House.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I am putting the question.

Comment on this

It is absolutely disgraceful. It is the same with many other institutions of the State as well, as we have witnessed in recent times.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy.

Comment on this

The Government does not care about any democracy in the House.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will the Deputy please resume his seat?

Comment on this

Given the opportunity, the Government will ram and railroad through what it likes, as it has been doing over the past 12 months. Treat the Parliament with some respect, for God's sake.

Comment on this
Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

Utter rubbish. That is a disgraceful remark.

Comment on this
Division Carried

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. a12 be agreed to."

Tá 88
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Níl 38

Do you agree with this result?

The Revised Estimates sent to the committees include provision for €300 million in savings envisaged under the Labour Relations Commission or Croke Park II agreement. Three specific items of legislation have been promised in the House by the Minister for Public Expenditure and the Taoiseach. Reference was made to the Payment of Wages Act, the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act, which was mentioned in respect of the savings that must be made, and legislation on pensions. Will the Government proceed with this legislation? Where stands the commitment to introduce it?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The legislation to which Deputy Martin refers and on which the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, commented, was three Bills that would have been brought forward if the agreement had been accepted by the trade unions. That is no longer the case following the decision made by the trade unions. As I stated during Leaders' Questions, the Government must now consider the outcome of the ballot and what decisions it must make to achieve the €300 million of additional savings this year.

Comment on this

The legislation is off the agenda for the time being.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It would have been brought forward if the agreement had been accepted. The Government must now consider the options.

Comment on this

That is significant.

Comment on this

To clarify, is it correct that the legislation will not be forthcoming, as had been indicated? Legislation has not been drafted.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The three items of legislation on which the Minister and I commented would have been brought forward if the deal had been accepted. The deal was rejected by the unions and we are in a new position. The Government will have to consider what it must do to achieve the savings set out in the fiscal programme.

Comment on this