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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Crime detection rates and Garda resources

Summary

Micheál Martin challenged the Taoiseach over rising crime, low burglary and theft detection rates, Garda vehicle shortages and poor morale. The Taoiseach defended Government investment and Garda operational arrangements, while disputing claims that crime statistics were manipulated.

I wish to raise with the Taoiseach the issue of crime, as well as the position of An Garda Síochána. As the Taoiseach is aware, a major conference is being held by the Garda Representative Association, GRA, at present and a number of significant issues have emanated from it relating to manpower, equipment, resources and Garda morale. In tandem with these issues, the Central Statistics Office has confirmed that burglaries have increased by 17%, while robberies, extortion and hijackings have increased by more than one third. One of the more worrying statistics is that only one in four burglaries and only one in three thefts are actually detected, which comprises a significant and serious position.

In respect of equipment and resources, gardaí have stated the fleet has been reduced by more than 370 vehicles in the past three years, which is a reduction of more than 30%. Gardaí have stated that criminal gangs are conducting their crimes with high-powered vehicles while, to use a phrase employed, gardaí are pursuing them in the equivalent of lawnmowers. The fleet as it was has been replaced by commercial vans that are completely unsuitable for modern policing. On the manpower front, the remarks of the GRA president, John Parker, were quite worrying. He stated that gardaí are demoralised because manpower and resources are so depleted that even the investigation of crime itself is affected. He stated: "It's a PR exercise often where you go out and you record as much as you can and you try to allocate as much time as you can to the investigation of that crime." He went on to state:

The manpower is not there for a serious follow-up to crime. On previous occasions what you would do is door-to-door [inquiries], you would saturate the area. These facilities are not there now.

Other gardaí say that in more than 30 years, Garda morale has never been so low. Obviously the absence of, or reduction in, resources, equipment and facilities is compounded by the manner in which gardaí were treated in the context of the Croke Park II negotiations. There were many examples of the financial predicament in which many gardaí find themselves.

Is the Taoiseach concerned about these statistics, in terms of the low detection rate in burglaries and thefts? What does the Government intend to do about that? I raised the broader issue of Garda morale previously with the Taoiseach. This is at an all-time low and I put it to the Taoiseach that it needs an intervention by him personally and by broader Government to ensure the morale of gardaí can be improved significantly and also that the relationship between the Government and the Garda can be significantly enhanced.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Martin raises two issues, first, the comments about crime rates and, second, the question of transport. The Government fully understands that the Garda Commissioner runs Garda operations on a day-to-day basis. There is no interference in that regard, nor can there be, unlike what happened on a number of occasions in the past. I understand the Garda Commissioner responded this morning to allegations made in the media by the president of the Garda Representative Association, GRA. The Commissioner has no information or evidence about the allegations that were spoken about and has called formally on Garda Parker to clarify his position and provide any information or evidence he has concerning the claims he made. The Garda Commissioner has assured the public that all crimes reported to gardaí will be fully and thoroughly investigated and that, where possible, offenders will be brought to justice. The Commissioner has the full and absolute support of the Government in this regard.

The latest crime statistics show a reduction in crime under a wide range of headings, 11 out of 14. It is not a good situation to have the GRA making claims concerning which the Garda Commissioner has no evidence or facts with which to back them up. Since the enactment of the Garda Síochána Act in 2005, as Deputy Martin is aware, the Central Statistics Office is the independent national statistical agency which compiles and publishes crime statistics. The CSO has established a dedicated unit for this purpose, and to this end the Garda Síochána provides data to it concerning crime. General crime counting rules are published by the CSO as technical notes in each of its quarterly recorded crime reports. These notes explain when a crime is captured on the Garda PULSE system. The Minister for Justice and Equality is advised that supervisory ranks within An Garda Síochána review all incidents recorded on PULSE to ensure the correct crime classification is recorded. Further to this information, the Garda information service centre, the central authority for recording crime incidents on PULSE, also monitors and reviews PULSE information to ensure the crime classification is correct.

The Deputy mentioned transport, which was a problem in the past when no finance was provided for the acquisition of vehicles. I repeat to the Deputy that it is the Garda Commissioner who, entirely independent of Government and along with his personnel, decides which vehicles, according to type and specification, should be purchased. In 2012, 213 Garda vehicles were purchased at an overall cost of €4 million-----

Comment on this

That is less than half of what was needed.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----including, I point out to Deputy Healy Rae, those that go to Kilgarvan. A further €5 million was made available this year for the purchase and fit-out of appropriate Garda vehicles, as determined by the Commissioner and his staff.

Comment on this

Who got the black windows for the Minister for Justice and Equality?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

This represents a considerable investment in Garda transport, particularly at a time when the level of funding across the public sector is limited. Currently, the Garda fleet consists of 2,400 vehicles, with Garda patrol cars being taken out of commission when they reach 300,000 km on the clock. That decommissioning is undertaken to ensure the safety of Garda personnel and of members of the public.

To reiterate, the provision and deployment of Garda transport are matters for the Garda Commissioner in the light of what he considers are operational requirements. The availability of resources and responsibility for the efficient deployment of all official transport in each division is assigned to the divisional officer or the chief superintendent, who may deploy vehicles between stations in response to existing police demands. The allocation of resources across all divisions is monitored and reviewed on a continual basis. Far from a situation where previous Governments in the recent past did nothing about this, with limited cash available this Government made €4 million available last year and a further €5 million this year, which will provide a significant number of vehicles, to be determined in size and specification and scale by the Garda Commissioner.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach did not answer the question I asked.

Comment on this

He never does.

Comment on this

He answered a question I did not ask. The issue of the dispute between the Commissioner and garda relates to the massaging of figures, but I did not raise it. The Commissioner clarified that this morning. The Taoiseach took up his three minutes to answer a completely different question, deliberately in order to avoid the question I asked, namely, whether the Taoiseach was concerned about the low detection rate in regard to burglaries and theft. As he correctly pointed out, the CSO has confirmed that only one in four burglaries and one in three thefts are actually solved. That was my question. It might be useful if the Taoiseach answered the questions we ask of him.

The second question was about morale. Every garda one meets - it does not have to be at a GRA conference but anywhere, even if one knocks at any garda's door throughout the country - he will tell one that morale has never been worse, in 30 years within the force. Gardaí are not entirely enamoured of the attitude and approach of the Minister. That is fine, it is a personal affair.

Comment on this

That is out there, but there is a combination of factors involved here. In 2009, there were 2,800 vehicles, now there are 2,444. There has been a reduction.

Comment on this

Did the Deputy's party allocate any of those vehicles?

Comment on this

The Minister got his windows.

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They are chasing criminals who have high-powered Audis and BMWs while the Garda has family saloon cars. Apparently, the Garda has bought 80 commercial vans where one has to throw a prisoner in the back and have two in the front.

Comment on this

The vans are the new Garda stations.

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It is becoming ridiculous. There is no point in trying to set up a straw man - the Commissioner versus gardaí - and then he has to discipline them. We are in a democracy and should allow people to articulate their position. I spoke about morale. Gardaí were treated very badly by the Croke Park agreement. According to the welfare arm of the GRA, every day a garda is becoming insolvent. Equally, mortgage arrears are becoming a significant problem for many gardaí.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Thank you, Deputy.

Comment on this

What I hear from senior gardaí who have been around for a while is that morale is very low among the younger generation of gardaí who are looking for alternatives out of the force, if they can get one. That is a serious matter and I have no wish to raise it other than to suggest to the Taoiseach it is imperative for the Government to get to grips with this issue because it is wider than the Garda. It affects our society and our democracy. Gardaí are central to that and a linch pin of it.

Comment on this

Why did the Deputy agree with the troika to bring-----

Comment on this

Why did the Minister get the windows blacked out in his new State car?

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I call the Taoiseach.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy must have been somewhere at the weekend. I liked the way he started, asking me to answer the question I was asked.

Comment on this

Have him treated for amnesia.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Did I not hear the Deputy for 12 glorious minutes on Sunday, refusing to answer a question? The interviewer asked Deputy Martin about his proposal to take €350 million from the public service although he was complaining that the Government was not being fair in dealing with the figure of €300 million. The Deputy refused point blank to answer the question so he should not come into the Chamber and tell me it would be great if I answered his question.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

He must have had a little interaction. I can understand him getting buoyed up by these things.

The Garda Commissioner has challenged Garda Parker to back up his evidence for the claims he made that crime statistics are being massaged and manipulated.

Comment on this

I never made that point. I did not ask that today. The CSO figures were what-----

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I say to the Deputy-----

Comment on this

I did not ask that question.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Please allow the Taoiseach to reply to the question.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

This is an issue in the public interest.

Comment on this

I did not ask that question.

Comment on this

Deputy Martin needs to do a FÁS course on question asking.

Comment on this

I asked a question about the low detection rates for burglaries and thefts. Will the Taoiseach answer it?

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy, please.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am telling Deputy Martin that in the interest of public safety and public accuracy the Garda Commissioner has asked the president of the GRA to substantiate his claims of manipulation of crime statistics. The Government fully respects the work that gardaí carry out day and night on front-line services as the only line between the criminal and the civilian. These are difficult economic times for many people. They are equally difficult for lower paid members of the public services and front-line workers in the fire brigade, the Defence Forces and the many areas in which front-line services are provided, as well as for people in general. Nobody underestimates the scale of that. I want the Deputy to understand that the Government is fully committed to seeing that the men and women of the Garda force are given the equipment and facilities they need to do their job. This is why €9 million has been provided in the transport area in the past two years for the purchase and provision of appropriate Garda vehicles, as determined by chief superintendents and the Garda Commissioner and his staff.

Comment on this

A drop in the ocean.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Unlike the situation under Deputy Martin's Government, which made very little available, the provision of facilities has increased over the past two years. When burglaries occur, it happens on a frequent basis that they destroy people's hopes when they have to enter their own homes to find them ransacked. We have evidence of this. Many of the vehicles available to the emergency response unit and the specialist units of the Garda are far from the descriptions I heard this morning.

Comment on this

One in four burglaries is detected.

Comment on this