Pregnancies involving fatal foetal conditions
Deputy John Halligan raised the trauma faced by women continuing pregnancies involving conditions incompatible with life, including a case where a baby survived only seconds. The Taoiseach expressed sympathy but said the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill was framed within constitutional and legal limits.
There has been much discussion in recent weeks about Deputies acting on their conscience. I draw the Taoiseach's attention to a group of women in the Visitors Gallery who are also faced with an impossible decision. I also welcome members of the medical profession. The women concerned found themselves being told in heartbreaking fashion that they were carrying a baby who would live for just seconds or minutes outside the womb. They faced a crisis of conscience - whether to continue with their doomed pregnancy only to watch their baby die in their arms after taking its first breath or whether to end the pregnancy. A total of 1,500 women in Ireland face this dreadful decision every year or four women every day and 80% of them travel abroad for a termination.
Last week, the Government received an amendment to the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 from the Termination for Medical Reasons group, which is campaigning for the right to terminate pregnancies. The group comprises women and members of the legal and medical professions. Has the Taoiseach seen the letter they sent him? What are his views? The group has received legal advice that it is possible to include a reference to fatal foetal abnormalities in the upcoming Bill. Does he accept its argument? If not, is he prepared to support a referendum to repeal the eighth amendment to the Constitution? Every day in this country four devastated couples are told the woman is carrying a foetus with fatal abnormalities.
There is simply no argument for forcing these women to carry an unviable foetus to term in the knowledge that it will be incapable of surviving. They face one of the most difficult and harrowing decisions any person will have to make - a decision that is not taken lightly - but by not legislating for it and providing the legal and medical framework needed, we are forcing them in tragic circumstances to leave their home and country without care or advice at a time when they should be surrounded by their loved ones. I have to use the word "barbaric". If the Taoiseach spoke to any of these women like I have from all over the country and listened to the harrowing details, he would cry. I ask him not to allow this to continue.
Comment on this
As a husband and father, I know a pregnancy always brings a sense of excitement to a couple and of hoping the birth will be one of joy and lead to a child who can live a long, happy, fulfilling and contributing life. Everybody can understand the Deputy's comments and have some compassion on the issues he raises. I have come across cases where this has applied and the pregnant mother wanted to see the pregnancy through in order that she could hold the delivered baby in her arms and carry out an appropriate burial.
The situation was explained to the Minister for Health by representatives of the group to which the Deputy referred at a meeting in June last year. The Minister, as a doctor and father, empathised with them on the case they had made and outlined. The Bill going through the House on the protection of life during pregnancy is strictly within the Constitution and the law and deals specifically with cases in which there is a real and substantial risk to the life of the mother and the circumstances that arise in those cases in which a termination is allowed under the Constitution and the law. In that sense, while I understand the point the Deputy is making, this is a different set of circumstances which are not contemplated under the Bill. The constitutional right to life of the unborn is being upheld in the Bill and the obligation on the medical profession to save both lives, where possible, will be confirmed in it. Unfortunately, I cannot accede to the Deputy's request. While I understand the point he made, we are dealing with a specific set of circumstances where there is a real and substantial threat to the life of the mother and the circumstances arising from this in which a termination of a pregnancy is allowed.
Comment on this
While we are dealing with choice, we are also dealing with conditions that are incompatible with life. The best thing to do in the one minute available to me is to tell the Taoiseach a story of a woman I met who is too traumatised to be here today with all of the women present. She has told me that she went through with the birth having been recommended not to do so because the foetus was so badly damaged and it might have a traumatic effect on her. The young baby lived for approximately 25 seconds. That was three years ago and the woman concerned is deeply traumatised. She is unable to have sexual relations with her husband three years on. She is ill and wakes up with nightmares almost every night because of what she saw. That is not compassion.
A total of 87% of the people said in an opinion poll that women should have the choice if they were told the foetus was incompatible with life. Does the Taoiseach not accept that by forcing these women to go through with this, we are damaging their lives and the lives of their husbands, partners and families forever? Some 87% of the people would be behind the Taoiseach, but with the deepest of respect to him - I informed him that I would raise this issue today - the women concerned do not need compassion. They have their partners, families and friends and the medical profession. They need help. Last June they met the Minister for Health who I am told was deeply moved and promised he would do something. I do not know what that something is, but those were his words. I again ask the Taoiseach and every other Member to look up at these women and their husbands and tell them they will not allow another 1,500 women to suffer next year in the way many of them have suffered.
Comment on this
I am in receipt of representations from various groups around the country regarding the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill which is going through the House.
Some of these groups would like a much more liberal regime, some are calling for no change, while others would prefer a very much restricted position. What I am required to do as Head of Government is to deal with our Constitution and our law. While I have sympathy for the people represented by the Terminations for Medical Reasons group, it is one of a number of groups campaigning in this area. I do not know the personal circumstances of the person the Deputy mentioned. It is not open to me, in the context of the Bill before the House, to change any of these definitions.
Comment on this
It is possible to do so under the Constitution.
Comment on this
The provisions are strictly within the Constitution and the law. That is how the Bill was framed and that is the objective. As I said, some people want an entirely different regime, with changes that would alter the situation very much indeed. While I understand the point the Deputy is making, this Bill deals with the circumstances in which a termination of pregnancy is allowable, namely, where there is a real and substantial threat to the life of the mother.