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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Mortgage arrears code and bank oversight

Summary

Deputy Billy Kelleher argues the Central Bank’s mortgage-arrears code favours lenders and lacks independent oversight of proposed solutions, risking aggressive repossessions. Minister Joan Burton defends the code, the structured engagement process, the Insolvency Service and advice services as ways to secure sustainable outcomes and keep families in their homes. The exchange is repeatedly interrupted by partisan arguments and disorder in the Chamber.

The new Central Bank code on mortgage arrears favours banks, and the balance of power still lies with the banks in regard to repossessions. This new code leaves families all over the country who are currently in arrears in huge difficulty. It is a charter for home repossessions. It favours the banks and there is no independent oversight. Will the Minister agree that banks, because of their impaired balance sheets and the pressures they are under in trying to address their mortgage loan books, will become very aggressive in repossessing homes? There is no independent oversight with regard to sustainable solutions and if there is an appeals process, it is within the bank. Will the Minister agree that for the 90,000 families who are in arrears of 90 days or more on their mortgages, this code of conduct holds no hope? Many of them are outside the protection of the code because they are outside the moratorium on repossessions. Banks will begin to get very aggressive from 1 October this year because of this new code of conduct. We said that independent oversight was needed. We believe this code offers nothing other than favouritism to the banks with regard to repossessions.

David Hall of the Irish Mortgage Holders' Organisation said it was reprehensible that the Central Bank was rolling over and giving the banks everything they wanted. FLAC has also said that it is disappointed with the new code, as it favours bankers. Everybody would like to see a situation in which there was independence, oversight and monitoring of fair and sustainable solutions. It has been said that families are still watching Sky and not paying their mortgages. We have situations in which families are now on the basic levels of sustenance with regard to food, shelter and heating. They cannot partake in society and they cannot provide for their families in a sustainable way. This code offers no solution and certainly no hope to the 90,000 families who are struggling on a daily basis to pay their mortgages and live with some decency and dignity.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I call the Minister to reply.

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Eric J. Byrne Deputy Eric Byrne Labour Party

The Deputy's party did not leave them with their dignity.

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Deputy Byrne was elected to give it to them.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputies, I have called the Minister.

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Joan Burton Minister for Social Protection Labour Party

As we listen to the Anglo Irish Bank tapes, they sound more and more like the vampire tapes. I am not going to go into all of the history of the Deputy's party, but the issue is that those people sucked the lifeblood out of the country, and those in the Deputy's party had a large element of responsibility for that.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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What is the Minister trying to say? What is she implying?

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They could come in and tell us exactly what they knew and when they knew it, but let us move on to the code of conduct on mortgage arrears. It is important to remember first the steps the Government has taken since coming to office to address the situation. It started off in a situation in which we had an extended period of forbearance, and that has been extremely important in keeping roofs over the heads of families. Second, the banks were initially in a set-up in which they were going to kick the can down the road indefinitely. This is not possible if we are to sort out the finances of the country and get the country back to work and to some level of economic prosperity. The actions by the Government, including the code on mortgage arrears, have been to continue to protect families while setting up mechanisms and measures that allow for sustainable debt resolution for the very families about whom the Deputy speaks. I and every other Deputy in the House understand that they are suffering and are in great difficulty.

The targets that have been set with regard to the principal banks and the covered institutions are to provide sustainable mortgage solutions for 30% of distressed borrowers by the end of September and for 50% of distressed borrowers by the end of 2013.

The targets will become progressively more demanding such that the vast majority of distressed borrowers will have been offered solutions by the end of 2014. The Dáil and the Seanad spent a considerable amount of time examining legislation on the Insolvency Service of Ireland in order to provide options for certain borrowers who had debts that were not sustainable in the long term. The Deputy referred to Mr. David Hall who stated on "Morning Ireland" that there was no immediate risk to borrowers. This is a process which must be pursued in the interests of recovery for the country and the families concerned to the point where debts will be sustainable. I thought that was the policy of Deputy Billy Kelleher's party.

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The Minister has said the banks sucked the lifeblood out of the country. She is now setting out a code of conduct for the banks to suck the lifeblood out of families. There is no independent oversight. She spoke about sustainable solutions and resolution mechanisms, but the banks will be deciding what is sustainable. Families will have no role in defending or arguing their case. The bank will present the borrower with what it views as a sustainable solution. It is unacceptable that we will not have independent evaluation or oversight of what banks offer with regard to sustainable solutions. Of course, we want the banks to provide sustainable solutions, but they must be sustainable for the families concerned. That is my difficulty with the code of practice. It does not cater for families in significant distress and under huge pressure, both financially and psychologically-----

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Your policies hugely inflated house prices.

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You put them in distress.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Please, Deputy Billy Kelleher's time is nearly up.

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I remind the Deputies opposite that the election took place two and a half years ago.

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The problems are still there.

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We are coming here everyday to clean up Fianna Fáil's mess.

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The solutions-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will Deputies, please, speak through the Chair?

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Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin will not have to come for here much longer.

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We still have no solutions.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy should not respond to the interruptions.

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He is not allowed to speak.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

If Deputies do not stay quiet, I will suspend the sitting. This is nonsense. I ask Deputy Billy Kelleher to make his point. He should not make speeches; he should just ask a question.

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That is not his fault.

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The Minister does not get it.

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Approximately 145,000 families are in mortgage distress. Looking for scapegoats or pointing fingers is not a solution for those families who are watching this debate and hoping a solution will be found. Even at this stage, is it possible to include something in the code of conduct that would, at least, allow independent oversight and evaluation of proposals for sustainable solutions? It is completely on the side of the banks and anyone with common sense will realise that they will become aggressive in repairing their distressed mortgage books.

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I am concerned that the Deputy is attempting to unduly distress families who are already worried enough and want a solution to the difficulties which have been ongoing for four years or more in many cases. If he is seeking to help families in distress, he should have the courtesy to speak about facts and what the code of conduct provides for. It provides for a structured system over this year and next for families to engage with their lenders in finding a sustainable solution to their debt problem.

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For the banks.

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When the Deputy's party was in government, its solution was simply to kick the can down the road. Kicking the can is understandable in the early stages of a crisis-----

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The Government is kicking the can into borrowers' faces.

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-----but it is not sustainable if the families are so indebted that they cannot sustain where they are living. The code of conduct, the Insolvency Service of Ireland and the mortgage advice and information telephone line-----

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It is a code for the bankers.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Stay quiet, please.

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-----provide a series of mechanisms to help people in terrible distress about their debts to find a solution. Deputy Billy Kelleher suggests the Central Bank should not engage in such a process. Fianna Fáil's way with the banks is, basically, any old way.

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The Government's way is to support the banks.

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This process will help the country by helping distressed borrowers and families to keep a roof over their heads.

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This is a process for evictions.

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What does that involve?

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For a small number of families, it may involve the resolution offered by the Insolvency Service of Ireland. I suggest to the people who may be alarmed by what Deputy Billy Kelleher has said this morning that they contact the mortgage and arrears advice telephone service run by the Department. We also provide an independent accounting advice service for families who are approaching the stage of resolution and have to make a decision. This process is like buying a house in that it involves important financial decisions. Through the mortgage arrears resolution process of the Central Bank, the Insolvency Service of Ireland and the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, we have put in place a series of measures to allow families to seek advice and guidance before they make their critical decisions for their futures and family homes.

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The banks will decide at the end of the day.

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