White-collar crime enforcement
Deputy McGrath calls for a review of Ireland’s inadequate white-collar crime regime. The Tánaiste agrees justice is too slow, cites stronger regulation and legislation, and says the Government will consider the outgoing regulator’s recommendations, possibly through an Oireachtas committee.
I want to raise with the Tánaiste some comments by the outgoing Financial Regulator which I believe have not got the attention they deserve so far. During a recent appearance before the Committee of Public Accounts, Matthew Elderfield called for a review of Ireland's regime for dealing with white collar crime. I fully support that call. To be clear, I am not looking for a response on any specific investigation. I am highlighting the need to improve our system. Mr. Elderfield said he believes our system for dealing with white collar crime in Ireland is not working sufficiently well and he advocated that a review would be carried out by someone such as a retired judge, a former Attorney General or perhaps by the Committee of Public Accounts. This is an important intervention from someone who is respected and who has seen at close quarters the inadequacies of our existing system here.
There is a sense that if one is an ordinary Joe in Ireland and one transgresses the law by not paying the television licence or the property tax, or by engaging in petty theft, the wheels of justice move fairly efficiently and there is a good chance one will be caught and punished. However, if one is involved in white collar crime the wheels of justice move extremely slowly and very often come to a grinding halt. Official figures from the Central Statistics Office back that up in that recorded white collar offences are increasing but conviction rates are plummeting.
As in the case of a burglary or an assault, there are real victims in the case of white collar crime too. In many cases victims of such crimes have had their lives destroyed, especially financially, not to mention the damage done to our economy and to this country's reputation as a place to do business.
A comprehensive review of the way we deal with white collar crime in this country is needed now. It would need to examine, for example, the effectiveness of existing laws, the way we investigate white collar crime, the powers and expertise available to the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation and the Director of Corporate Enforcement, the issue of penalties and possibly the issue of specialist juries also.
I believe that all the justifiable anger about recent revelations must be converted into something positive. Will the Government consider appointing a qualified and experienced person to carry out a review of our regime dealing with white collar crime to see how it can be improved?
Comment on this
I agree that we need to examine the way we deal with white collar crime in this country. It is fair to say that many people are very frustrated at how slowly the wheels of justice turn in many areas of white collar crime. Some of that is understandable because often what is being investigated in white collar crime involves files, records and all kinds of complex documentation which must be examined and a case made ready for prosecution. However, there is a well-founded view among the public that if one commits a white collar crime, one is not as susceptible to justice as someone who commits what is often referred to as ordinary crime.
The Government will consider what the outgoing Financial Regulator has to say on this matter and will respond to it but that should not be and is not a substitute for dealing with the issues of white collar crime currently under investigation and which have to be brought to justice. I do not want anybody to have the idea that we will have some kind of large overall examination of white collar crime and that this is something for the long distant future. There are issues under investigation. There are some issues that are before the court that I do not want to comment on for obvious reasons. An examination of the way we deal with white collar crime in this country and of getting a regime that operates more quickly and delivers justice and fairness in a more effective and transparent way is something we need to address, but that examination and consideration of the overall question of white collar crime must not be seen as a substitute or replacement for what is also required, which is the pursuit and the prosecution of white collar criminality currently under investigation.
Comment on this
I thank the Tánaiste for his reply, which I largely welcome. I was clear that my comments were not directed in any way at the current investigations. The Tánaiste is correct in saying there is already a substantial body of law in place. Investigations are under way and offences will have to be dealt with through the criminal justice system. That is taken as a given. The issue I raise follows on from the significant intervention by the outgoing Financial Regulator, Matthew Elderfield, who has a lot of experience of dealing with this in Ireland in recent years, and he has pointed to the inadequacies of our existing system.
I welcome that the Tánaiste will take up the issue and I ask him to elaborate on that. How will that happen? Will this issue be discussed by Government, and will a structure be put in place whereby the entire regime, in all its facets, can be examined properly and quickly and recommendations made that the Government and this House can consider? As I said earlier, the bottom line is that white collar crimes are not victimless crimes by any means. They might not be as obvious to the eye as some of the ordinary crimes the Tánaiste described but there are real consequences for ordinary people and for people directed by white collar crimes, and we must bear that in mind. If our system is inadequate, as in the view of the outgoing Financial Regulator and Deputy Governor of the Central Bank, we need to sit up and take notice of that. Will this issue be discussed by Government quickly and in what format? What does the Tánaiste envisage will be the outcome of that discussion? Will it be to have a specific review of all the aspects we have discussed here this morning?
Comment on this
We need to take into account that the Government has been taking action in this area. When this Government came to office in 2011, we inherited what was known as the light touch regulation regime. That was the regime which applied under the previous Government. Members of that Government boasted at various times that there was light touch regulation. That has been greatly changed. A Bill before the Dáil this morning, the Central Bank (Supervision and Enforcement) Bill, is about tightening the regulatory regime that applies, for example, in respect of financial institutions.
The first point which must be acknowledged is that the Government has already tightened and strengthened the regulatory regime in the financial services sector.
Comment on this
The outgoing Financial Regulator, who is greatly respected by the Government, has worked to strengthen the regulatory regime in that sector. What he has said in a wider sense - both about regulation and about white collar crime - is something which the Government takes seriously. In the first instance, we will consider both what he has said and the recommendations he has made. We may perhaps choose to progress this matter through a discussion at an Oireachtas committee in order to refine some of the ideas he has put forward. That is an issue to which we will be obliged to give some consideration. I assure the Deputy that this Government believes in strong and appropriate regulation of the financial services sector. It also believes that fairness must apply within our judicial system. There cannot be a perception that a slow track exists in the context of the way that system deals with white collar crime as opposed to other forms of criminality. This is a matter in respect of which we have already taken some steps. We will certainly take on board what the outgoing Financial Regulator has had to say about it.