With regard to the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (amendment) Bill, it is quite extraordinary to think tonight will be an historic occasion when the issue of the abolition of the Seanad will be debated on prime-time television but the Taoiseach will not engage.

Is this a question about legislation?

Yes. The Taoiseach is handing over the job to a man who wanted his job a number of years ago. He would not give him the job then but tonight he will put him out in his place. It is extraordinary and absolutely unbelievable.

This is not on the Order of Business.

But it is very topical.

It is extremely topical.

The Deputy should raise it in another way.

The people of Ireland look up to their Taoiseach and want to hear his arguments on the abolition of the Seanad, but he refuses the opportunity to go on prime-time television and debate the matter with people with differing views from his own. What is the Taoiseach doing tonight that is so important that he cannot go on television to debate a matter of national importance, a referendum that he instigated? He started the move to abolish the Seanad.

That is enough.

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----

I am not speaking to the Whip but to the Taoiseach. He knows I am making sense.

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

I would like the Taoiseach to answer the question.

This is supposed to be about legislation, but I will answer Deputy Healy Rae's question. I am not interested in debating societies or being led around by those who want me to debate Deputy Martin, which would turn into a debate between two individuals rather than a debate on the issue involved. What is involved is the question the people are being asked, which is the straight question of whether they want to abolish or keep the Seanad. I hope people vote "Yes" to abolish it. I have had very many good friends in the Seanad over the years but unfortunately after 70 years of politics nothing has been done about it. It is powerless, ineffective and costs €20 million a year to run. It has never engaged with public society in the way it should. We can do far more to have comprehensive analysis, preparation, co-ordination and implementation in this House, the people's House, which under Article 28.4° is responsible for holding the Government to account. This is where the people's influence is vested. On Friday the people will have the opportunity to have their voice heard. It is not a matter for politicians, leaders or political parties. It is a matter for the people and their voice can be heard on Friday. "Yes" for the abolition of the Seanad and "Yes" for establishing the court of appeal.

The Taoiseach did not answer the question.

He avoided it.

Tonight I will launch a book on The Gathering for the hospice movement and another book on Ireland's participation in the European Union over the past 40 years, both of which are about our country, jobs, opportunities and civic society. Frankly, I have no interest in those who like to comment on who did what with regard to the debate. I am not into debating societies.

The Taoiseach could have sent the Minister, Deputy Bruton, there. It would have made more sense.