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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Age-based cut to young people’s welfare

Summary

Stephen Donnelly challenges the reduction in basic welfare payments for under-26s as age discrimination, arguing that young graduates need jobs rather than reduced support, and asks the Taoiseach to reconsider it. The Taoiseach defends differentiated payments as incentives linked to training, mentoring and employment, maintaining that young people have a right to work and opportunity.

Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

With respect, there is only one group of people who are insulting the motivation of young people, and this is the group of people who are stating that their social protection must be cut to get them to work, because this is the logic being used. The Minister, Deputy Howlin, stated yesterday that he was pleased to announce that there was to be no reduction in the basic social welfare rates for people of working age. He then announced a reduction in the basic social welfare rates for those aged under 26. Are people under 26 not of working age? I am confused. This morning on national radio the Tánaiste added insult to injury by stating that this was not a cut. In doublespeak worthy of George Orwell he explained it was not a cut but that the Government was simply extending lower rates to these people. It is extraordinary stuff.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

Aideen Carberry, the national chairperson of Labour Youth, stated that it was fundamentally unfair and that it was the opinion of Labour Youth that the measure would cause people to emigrate. She stated they had watched with a combination of sadness and concern and that the problem with the unemployment crisis in the country was not training but the fact that there are not enough jobs.

Most of our young unemployed are graduates. They are highly educated and take low-paid work to make ends meet. This cut displays a complete misunderstanding of the unemployment challenge faced by our youth and is not just bad economics but also discriminatory. This is an issue of human rights. None of us would, I hope, come in here to state we will cut basic social protections to non-whites, women or Muslims, but this is exactly what the Government has done; it has targeted a group of people based on age.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

Does the Taoiseach accept that this cut discriminates based on age? Does he accept that this is not how we should do business in this country? Does he accept that these people are equal citizens in our country? Will he ask the Minister, Deputy Burton, to remove this from the social welfare Bill before it comes before the House?

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Donnelly is normally very constructive in his comments when he has the opportunity to lead the Technical Group.

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He is very constructive today too.

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He asked the Taoiseach to reverse the cuts.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

He fully understands from the constituency he represents that young people have a right to have a chance to get a job, a career and an opportunity. It seems as if these parties want to confine them to the dole queues for the rest of their lives.

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That is what the Government is doing.

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Fourteen million euro for the youth guarantee scheme.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Please keep your mouths closed for a few minutes.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Tánaiste and the Labour Party-----

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Not Labour Youth.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----have been very clear about the position of the Government in wanting to provide opportunities for people to get into the world of work. One must provide an incentive for this. The Minister, Deputy Burton, has pointed out that it is not the way to go that when a young lad or girl leaves secondary school they suddenly end up in the rut of unemployment which ends in a tunnel of despair.

We have to be able to reform the system to give them the opportunity. The Government has ring-fenced money and places in the back-to-education scheme, training and mentoring.

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They are graduates.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

For the young graduates Deputy McDonald and the chairperson of Labour Youth were talking about, those who are entrepreneurs can start their own businesses under the young entrepreneur scheme and avail of mentoring to start those businesses-----

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With what? Their breath?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and they can get State assistance. If somebody in their mid-20s has been out of work for 15 months, he or she can now start a business and have up to €40,000 in tax-free income based on the two years prior to the setting up of those businesses. It is a case of providing the motivation and the opportunity for people to work.

A case came in to me this morning of a married man with three children who was on €560 and was put on a three-day week. Between his three-day week, his unemployment assistance, housing rent and all the rest of it, he is now on nearly €900. Where is the incentive to work?

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We have known that this five years past. Is the Taoiseach only waking up to it?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

This country has always beaten adversity by being practical about working our way out of it. This budget is about exiting the bailout caused by the people opposite. I recall the press conference when my predecessor as Taoiseach, Mr. Cowen, and the late lamented Mr. Brian Lenihan walked off the stage and were replaced by the troika-----

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Where was the Taoiseach then?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and our sovereignty and our economic independence were handed away. This Government of Fine Gael and the Labour Party is focused on retrieving that economic sovereignty. Our young people will have the opportunity in a new country to have work, careers and opportunities.

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It will be a new country, all right.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That is what this is about. We ring-fenced money and places so the young people of Wicklow, Dublin and the entire country will have those opportunities for their ambition, talent and creativity to flourish.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. I had a young man working for me for free recently. He has a degree and a master's degree and he has now gone to full-time paid employment. Before him, I had another young man working for me who had a degree and two master's degrees. He worked for me free to get experience, and he has now moved on.

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What about the leader's allowance?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Order, please.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

These people do not need an incentive to work. If what the Taoiseach is saying is that there are other people out there who, based on getting the normal social welfare rate, are refusing to either take up jobs or take up important training, then I refer him to the job activation measures the Minister, Deputy Burton, is bringing in. I would not want someone with a degree and two master's degrees to be told they had to train in landscape gardening because they could not find a job. However, what the Government is already bringing in is a rule that states that if a person refuses a job he or she will get no welfare benefits because he or she is refusing to work. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with targeting people under 26-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

-----for no other reason than that they are under 26, just as I would if the Government had targeted women, people of colour or people of a particular religion. This is an issue of human rights. The Government is not applying it to 30 year olds, 40 year olds or 50 year olds.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

My question is this. We have time, based on the new budgetary process, to step back, think, meet and discuss. I ask the Taoiseach to think about this in terms of human rights. I ask him to be aware that job activation measures have already been introduced whereby, if a person is sitting at home-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Thank you, Deputy.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

-----living on the dole and refuses to take a job, that person gets nothing. I would support that. My question to the Taoiseach is this. In the time Dáil Éireann has to tease out all of this in the coming months, will the Taoiseach please take this away and reflect that this is an issue of human rights and it is discriminatory?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I regard the issue of human rights, as referred to, as the right to work and the right to have an opportunity to work. That is what good government should be about. The number on the live register was nearly 500,000 just a short time ago. Because of the reforms and the changes brought about, and because of the labour activation measures-----

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That is due to emigration.

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It is emigration.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----that has fallen consistently for 15 months and we expect it to go below 400,000 before the end of the year.

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How many jobs have the labour activation measures created?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Order, please.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Many of those are young people. I regard every person as having the right to work. I agree with the Deputy that those who decide they do not want to work are in a different situation.

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We need to create the jobs for them.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is true that in the Department of Social Protection different people have been treated differently over the years, from young people through the different categories that apply in society and right up to senior citizens. They are all treated in different ways depending on what category they find themselves in. I believe the changes that are made here are really in the interest of allowing young people to find a whole new opportunity and advantage.

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The Taoiseach does not believe that.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I want to see the new Intreo offices that are being rolled out by the Minister, Deputy Burton, where there are group interviews, where mentoring is available from small businesses and where there are people who will say, "I have an opportunity for you. If you do this education course you can be involved in retrofitting, since you worked in construction and you can change direction." This is about giving them the incentive, the opportunity and the motivation to say, "I have a talent. I want to do something different. Here is the opportunity for me."

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A Deputy

There are no jobs.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Thank you.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Why is it that, for years, there was never engagement with them? When they signed on they were left to sign on.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

No one is arguing with that.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

This is different. These are our people. These are the future of our country. They all have a talent and an opportunity, and we want to let that flourish. That is what this is about. The day we exit this bailout will be a different day for Ireland. We will put the shutters up behind us and never let it happen again, like the legacy and the economic mess that fell down on our people-----

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There are 32 applicants for every job vacancy. It is a joke.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----through incompetence, greed and everything else that applied in a culture we never want to go back to.

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