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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Protections for elderly citizens

Summary

Clare Daly says elderly protesters are defending social entitlements and condemns the Government as detached from ordinary citizens. The Taoiseach defends pensioners’ allowances and tax treatment, while also urging Dublin Bus drivers to accept Labour Court recommendations to restore the service’s viability.

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for that. The Taoiseach's responses to the previous speakers reveal what a fantasy world he lives in, one which has no bearing on the real lives of ordinary citizens. Does he not think it is an indictment of his Government that the grey army has had to take to the streets again on this wet and miserable day, not to enrich themselves and not for their own personal gain but to defend the idea of society's social wage, the rights and entitlements built up over decades that make the difference between a decent civilisation and absolute poverty, rights and entitlements which the Taoiseach's Government has consistently stripped away, not because it is necessary and not because it does not have another choice but because of its relentless pursuit of the ideas of neoliberalism?

I do not think the pensioners will be alone. They will probably be joined on Thursday by another section of society. This time it will be Dublin Bus workers, who face their fourth ballot on the so-called new restructuring plan, which obviously is not new at all and is just a rehash of the previous three. The Government can dress it up anyway it likes, what is being proposed for these workers is the taking of more than €6 million out of their pay packets as part of a rationalisation package of more than €12 million, the erosion of their jobs and conditions and the bringing in of a race to the bottom, and just in case they might have the neck to reject that package again, the Government has focused their attention. The Taoiseach's Ministers have come out and told them there will be very stark consequences if they vote "No". Reminiscent of William Martin Murphy, these people are being told "vote for this, or else". Capitulate or the alternative will be worse. They are aided in this by the media chorus telling them why this cannot be done and asking what is wrong with Dublin Bus workers when everybody accepts being bled dry.

Not everybody else accepts being bled dry. The members of ASTI, the junior doctors and the tens of thousands of other workers who voted against the recent pay deals do not accept it. At the heart of this discussion, as with the protest today, is what type of society we want to live in and what will be the Government's legacy. Public services cost money and it is not good enough for the Taoiseach to expect workers to pay for that out of their wage packets because his Government is not prepared to invest and properly subsidise a decent transport system in this State. The reason it is not prepared to do that is not that it does not have the money, it is that it is too busy subsidising the wealthy.

Like many citizens, I thought the Taoiseach had some neck yesterday to give his address to the nation and talk about a welfare dependency culture, a code for an onslaught on poor and vulnerable people, but he said nothing about the dependency culture of the parasites who got us into this mess in the first place, the people he has no problem bailing out and subsidising. Instead he prefers to go to low-paid bus workers or pensioners and ask them to pay up.

When is the Taoiseach going to end this economic and social lunacy and start investing in public transport and services and stop expecting workers to pay for this through an erosion of wages and conditions, stripping these companies bare and facilitating a privatisation for the wealthy interests he so clearly represents?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy covered a lot of ground in her speech. As I said in response to Deputy Adams, the budget included €100 million more to maintain pensions for the elderly at a very high rate, much higher than in many other countries in Europe. I made the point that the State pensions, the carers scheme, the free travel and the free television licence have not been touched. Neither has the free fuel allowance because it is important. The tax treatment of the elderly remains unchanged with no change in net income for pensioners under this particular budget. Those who are aged over 65 will continue to have more favourable tax treatment than any other taxpayers in the country. That favourable treatment has been protected in the budget. The preferential treatment for the elderly in terms of the universal social charge, USC, remains in place whereby a person aged 70 or over will not be liable to the highest rates of USC, if his or her income does not exceed €60,000.

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So they had no reason to protest, had they?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The USC does not apply to social welfare payments, including pension payments made by another state or any other territory and of a similar nature to State pension payments.

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Get up on the lorry and tell them that.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I advise Deputy Daly that such payments will not be taken into account in determining if an individual has exceeded the €60,000 threshold. These are all protectionist measures and facilities because we recognise the importance of the contribution made by elderly people over the years. As the Deputy will be aware, those aged 66 and over are not liable to pay PRSI on any of their income, including their unearned income, in comparison with an average worker on €33,000 per annum who faces a marginal tax rate of 52%, including income tax, universal social charge and PRSI payment.

There are no increases on excise on fuel or on the 23% or 13.5% VAT rates, and all these measures are positive for the elderly. The bereavement grant has been removed. In the event of a death, the remaining spouse, civil partner or cohabitant receives six weeks of the payment after death. In addition to that, anybody who faces genuine financial hardship in respect of a bereavement or a funeral can obtain assistance from the Department of Social Protection under supplementary welfare support.

There are also a range of additional supports for people following a death and which are worth considerably more than the bereavement grant. For instance, there is the widow's, widower's or surviving civil partner's pension, which is a weekly pension based on contributions or a means test. Second, the widow's or the surviving civil partner's grant is a once-off payment of €6,000 where there is a dependent child up to the age of 22 in full-time education. There is a guardian's payment where a person is looking after an orphaned child. If a person dies as a result of an accident at work or occupational disease, a special funeral grant of €850 is also paid.

The level of the living alone allowance has been maintained at €7.70 per week. There is a commitment from the Minister, Deputy Hogan, and the Minister for Social Protection in respect of the senior alert scheme. The level of coverage between the full medical card and GP-visit card for everybody over the age of 70, even after the changes are implemented, will be 93%. The announcement of an additional €200 million in the budget in new capital projects includes 5,700 grants for adaptation of houses for the elderly and the disabled.

As the Deputy will be aware, the DIRT measures do not affect married couples aged 65 and over with incomes below €36,000 or single people aged over 65 with incomes below €18,000. These are measures that have been introduced and maintained and protected for our elderly people. Therefore, the Deputy's charge of all these items being stripped away is invalid.

In respect of the Deputy's comment on Dublin Bus and in terms of that issue, I hope the workers will accept the proposals. Despite the introduction of a number of cost reduction measures, Dublin Bus has lost €84 million over the past five years and this level of loss is unsustainable. The Labour Court recommendations to achieve the savings have been accepted by the non-driver grades in the company but rejected on three separate occasions by the drivers, as the Deputy will be aware. The Government, ICTU and IBEC have together made one final attempt to resolve this and engaged industrial relations personnel who went into the company to examine in great detail and to analyse the issues which led to the rejections. Those people have published a set of proposals for operational change which will address the concerns of the drivers while enabling the Labour Court recommendations to be implemented, and I hope these can be accepted. I understand the drivers are balloting on the proposals later this week and I hope a positive outcome will result. It is in the interests of the drivers of the company and of the citizens at large.

Comment on this

I am beginning to wonder if the purpose of the Taoiseach's response was to put us into some sort of hypnotic trance whereby he just mumbled back the same nonsense we have been hearing for weeks and does not address any of the issues raised. When one cuts through the waffle, what he is actually saying is that the citizens who built this country over decades of work and who are outside the gates of this House in the rain are obviously missing something, that they are obviously deranged and that they do not understand the wonderful paradise on earth that the Government has created for them. However, it is the Taoiseach who is out of touch and they are the ones whose feet are on the ground.

If on paper a pensioner's income in Ireland is more than it is in other European countries, that is because the purchasing power they have and the lack of social services they can access with that money is considerably worse than anywhere else in Europe. These people do not deserve to be bled dry. The Taoiseach talks about them being given favourable treatment. The reality is that the only favourable treatment that has been meted out by his Government is to the wealthy in our society. The top 10% of earners now share the same in that regard as the bottom 10%.

The Taoiseach spoke about us not being able to afford public services. The reality is that we have cut public spending by about 40% since 2008 and at the heart of this is a sea change in social policy. Can the Taoiseach not admit that his Government is wedded to the ideas of neoliberalism and that his strategy is to strip public services to facilitate privatisation and a race to the bottom?

I understand why the Taoiseach is out of touch. It is because his friends in the likes of Independent News & Media, who got a big subsidy and bailout from this State of about €60 million, clap him on the back and tell him he is doing a great job.

Dublin Bus is a vital public service. It is not supposed to break even. It should be subsidised because we have the lowest form of public transport subsidy of any European country. I would like the Taoiseach to explain the reason Dublin Bus workers, who have a modest wage, should forfeit that to facilitate a process whereby every year €50 million is allocated for the West Link toll bridge, a project that was paid for twice over.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Thank you, Deputy.

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Millions of euro are given out every year in public private partnerships for roads that are not being used yet buses which are being used cannot get an adequate level of subsidy. It is upside down economics and it demonstrates how out of touch the Taoiseach is.

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The Deputy is anti-rural.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I call the Taoiseach for a final reply.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I hope the Deputy's attempt at derangement, waffling or mumbling speaks for itself. The Department of Social Protection pays €75 million a year for free travel. Whether the Deputy likes it or not-----

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Do not start that again-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----contributory and non-contributory pensions in this country for our senior citizens are among the highest in Europe. The ESRI, which, for the Deputy's information, is a completely independent body, has said that since the bank guarantee and all of the adjustments that have taken place, elderly people have lost about 1.4% in all of those adjustments.

Deputy Daly might think that her feet are more on the ground than anybody else's but does she think it is not right and fair that people should have allowances for free travel, free electricity or free fuel?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Does she think it is not right and proper that the contribution made by these people-----

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That is sleeveen stuff.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----over past generations should be reflected in favourable treatment in the way the country looks at them in terms of tax, the universal social charge, USC, or exemptions in respect of PRSI payment?

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Charlie Haughey-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As I have said to the Deputy, on the question of Dublin Bus, which is a fundamental service for the public in this capital city of our country, the non-driver grades have accepted the recommendations. The drivers have rejected this on three occasions. The best personnel that could be got from the Government, from ICTU and from IBEC have made a genuine last attempt-----

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IBEC. The Taoiseach should go out and drive himself for a week-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----to see that all of the issues that were of real concern to the drivers would be analysed in terms of the Labour Court recommendations. I hope the drivers in their ballot this week will accept the recommendations based on the proposals from the personnel who went in there to examine them. It is an essential fact of life, whether the Deputy likes it or not, that Dublin Bus be returned to viability. That case has been made clearly by the Labour Court and by the recent independent investigation report. I hope the drivers, in their balloting this week, will accept the recommendations and have Dublin Bus back on the street providing a very valuable service for the citizens of this city and for those who visit it from both at home and abroad.

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