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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Third-level education funding

Summary

Deputy Donnelly warns that declining per-student funding threatens universities, STEM graduate supply and Ireland’s technology ambitions, urging action in the budget. The Taoiseach praises Ireland’s digital sector and university projects but says the budget will stand.

Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

Last week's web summit demonstrated the huge opportunities for Ireland in digital technology. It is very important for our economic recovery and future prosperity that we are a global leader in technology and, critically, are recognised as such internationally. Unfortunately, a very important piece of Government policy is putting this at risk - the continued reduction in funding to third level institutions such as colleges and universities. As the Taoiseach knows, Government funding this year for third level institutions will fall by €25 million. We all welcome the creation of new jobs such as those announced at the summit, but if we want to see these announcements continue, we must start to have a very honest conversation about what is happening in the education sector. In the same week as the web summit the OECD released a report on adult education in Ireland and what it indicates should be taken very seriously. Among 24 assessed countries, in the literacy section we came 17th; more worryingly for the future of the technology sector in Ireland, in the section on numeracy we were ranked 19th. Three years ago we had two universities ranked in the top 100 in the world, but now we have none. The one university which managed to move up the rankings this year, UCD, got to 161st place and its president, Dr. Hugh Brady, stated in the Irish Independent:

A tipping point has been reached. The State must now either choose to empower its higher education institutions to compete with the world's best or continue to pursue a policy of central "command and control" and underfunding.

I am not sure people understand the extent of the underfunding. If one tracks State funding per student in our third level institutions, between 2008 and what is projected in 2015 under the Government's plan, the level of funding will halve. No country can aspire-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We are over time.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

With respect, I have had two minutes as opposed to the 15 afforded to others.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy is over time.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

I beg your indulgence for 30 seconds.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

No. Please adhere to the Chair's rulings and put a question.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

We cannot aspire to being a global leader in technology while halving the level of funding per student. I hope the Taoiseach agrees. He got a ride in Elon Musk's car to the summit and I am sure he heard him say that for technology companies, there must be engineers. Does the Taoiseach agree with Mr. Musk that for Ireland to continue to build its reputation in this area, we must have engineers and graduates of science, technology, engineering and mathematics? Does he agree that these graduates must be among the best in the world? Does he agree, therefore, that it is essential for us to stop the continued cuts in funding for third level institutions? Will he reverse the latest €25 million cut in the budget?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Last weekend was a signal moment in the sense that Ireland was recognised as one of the leading global centres of the digital technology world. For all those involved in the digital web summit in Dublin, it sent an international message of absolute excellence. Many of the people I met from all over the world would belie the argument made by the Deputy about the quality of our young people and graduates, particularly their innovative capacity and entrepreneurial skills. Many of the people involved in smaller companies might see their work explode in terms of its global reach in the next few years.

I agree very much with the Deputy that this issue requires some considerable debate in the Oireachtas. Central command and control has always been with the Department of Education and Skills, although the various third level colleges, universities and institutes of technology raise very considerable sums outside the remit of the State. We can consider what is happening in universities across the country, by way of expansion in the areas of science and engineering, as well as relationships formed in various parts of the world, including the Far East, the Middle East, the United States, etc., which means that there are very encouraging signs. It is true that we must get our act together for colleges of technology in terms of technicians. It is important that we supply engineers from our universities and that there be a relationship between the world of academia and the commercial sphere. There are massive online open courses, or MOOCs, which will change the way education is structured in the next decade. Lecturers will not be in the position they have been in up to now and will have to become much more observant mentors of students because of the vast quantity of information available for students of any subject. The relationship will change.

When I speak to people in companies investing in Ireland or when Enterprise Ireland is dealing with young companies exporting services, we can see how they are blown away by the capacity of our young entrepreneurs to measure up. No matter how hight the bar is set, young Irish people can meet the challenge. It is very important that we understand the fundamental importance of having quality engineers coming from our universities and technicians from the institutes of technology. We must move on to get the best from all of them.

Considerable amounts are raised outside the State in terms of support for third level colleges. The basis of the Deputy's case merits discussion because it is all about jobs and opportunities for the future and I share strongly that sentiment.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

I thank the Taoiseach for taking the matter seriously. I urge him to examine the issue in the current budget. It is one of the issues that is going below the radar in this country, that year-on-year we are eroding the funding to third level institutions. The presidents of those universities are saying loudly, clearly and publicly that something must change. Dr. Hugh Brady has described it as a tipping point. I spoke to the ex-president of one of our biggest universities recently, who described the process of the continued reduction in funding and cuts as the asset stripping of our third level system. We know that universities are pulling back on teaching resources and research and development activities.

I was in a fantastic start-up company this morning in UCD, the NovaUCD centre. What those involved are doing is coating material that will be used on a satellite the European Space Centre will soon send up to explore the sun.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Could the Deputy ask a question please?

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

I said I would be talking to the Taoiseach later today and asked what message I should give. I was asked to say that this employer is continuing to hire some of our good graduates in spite of Government policy. The person said that investment is required and that we need more connection between small businesses and universities. The universities cannot continue to fuel the future economic growth of this country if we in this Parliament halve the per student funding over a seven year period. I would very much welcome the Taoiseach's response to my question. Will he take a look, specifically, at the €25 million that is meant to come out of budget 2014?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The budget will stand. I was in the University of Limerick recently where the Bernal project - J. D. Bernal was a world famous engineer from Nenagh many years ago - is under way. It is funded in part by Atlantic Philanthropies. The intention is to bring in ten world class researchers - five of whom are in situ. The project will have a significant output. I have been in UCD, Trinity College, UCG and UCC and all of them look forward in their own way to the future.

Grangegorman in Dublin city centre will be the forerunner of a new kind of technological university in the country. That is why it is important that colleges of technology get together in terms of their specialties, as they see them, to gain technological university status for the future. It is very important that they engage in that process. Otherwise, the world will pass us by. I see opportunities for considerable numbers of technicians graduating from institutes of technology and engineers of exceptional quality coming from universities. The future is very bright when one relates that to the cluster movement between the world of academia and the commercial world. All of those people who were in Dublin last weekend see Ireland as a melting pot for ideas for change and transformation for the future. Let us have a discussion about the matter in due course. I respect the sentiment of what Deputy Donnelly said but in response to his question, the budget decision in respect of university funding will not be reversed.

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