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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Homelessness and emergency accommodation

Summary

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald condemns the rise in rough sleeping and the prolonged placement of families in hotels and bed-and-breakfast accommodation. The Taoiseach says homelessness has complex causes beyond housing, while promising coordinated action involving local authorities, NAMA, State agencies and available housing units; the exchange becomes increasingly adversarial.

Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

This is not a simple matter to sort out either. I spoke to somebody on the street the other night from a county outside Dublin who had had a row with his spouse, was on the streets and, according to himself, will be on them for a couple of weeks. At this time of the year, this issue becomes much more of a focus both for agencies dealing with it and because of the time of the year when the weather is deteriorating. I understand that one figure referred to recently relates to the number of unique individuals in contact with the regional contact and outreach service over a six-month period who were sleeping rough for one night. It is not a measurement of the number of people sleeping rough on a given night. Rather, it is an assessment of those who are entering rough sleeping over a six-month period or who may for a number of reasons have left an emergency accommodation bed.

I also understand that what is known as the rough sleeper count, which is twice-yearly, was last conducted in April 2013 and revealed 94 rough sleepers in the Dublin region. I understand that the figures from the recent November rough sleeper count will be available in a short period of time. I notice that many of the people commenting who work for the agencies indicate serious increases in people who are homeless or on the streets. I understand that some of these are based on telephone calls to some of the agencies. I am not sure how accurate this is. I am not decrying the figures they put out but there is a requirement to get an accurate focus on what is happening in Dublin. Some of them indicate to me that the numbers go up by five or six per day. If that is the case, there is clearly a spiralling element of homelessness.

The Minister of State with responsibility for housing is obviously interested in dealing with the housing situation and shortage in so far as we can. A Deputy from Dublin pointed out to me a number of vacant and derelict houses and units in her constituency which have not been attended to for quite a long time by Dublin City Council for one reason or another. The homeless policy statement published this year outlines the Government's intention to end long-term homelessness by 2016. That statement emphasises a housing-led policy that is about accessing permanent housing as a primary response to all forms of homelessness. That is the focus of Government policy. In 2012, in the Dublin region alone, 879 people moved from homelessness to independent living. I recently visited the unit at Merchant's Quay and spoke to some of these people who have moved to independent living and have been very happy with the move they have been able to make despite all the personal difficulties they have had.

I agree that economic circumstances placed huge pressure on so many individuals and families. The Government supports this with a budget of approximately €45 million in 2013. That funding maintains services across the country. It is matched by local authorities with a contribution of at least a further 10%. The bulk of the funding provided by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government goes to funding services by voluntary providers such as Focus Ireland, the Simon Community, Crosscare and the day care drop-in centres and outreach services. They all do very intensive and committed work. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government is committed to implementing the homeless policy statement and is determined to work closely with other State and voluntary organisations. We discussed this the other day here in one of the committees I chair so I am interested to see verification of the real numbers and how quickly we can make an impact on this. Based on the rough sleeper count I have given the Deputy, they are the figures I have. The figures from the second rough sleeper count conducted in November will be available very shortly. I agree that it is not a situation that anybody wants to stand over. I asked a homeless person the other evening about what he does with all the gear he was carrying. He told me he leaves it in a particular spot during the course of day and goes around to his usual haunts to see if he can make ends meet. That is not a satisfactory situation. Some people with whom I speak have a range of problems, as the Deputy is aware. Despite the best intentions of many voluntary organisations, some of them do not want to go into housing or emergency housing. Some people want to stay on the street for their own very specific reasons. That is a difficult situation. When I was first elected here in the 1970s, there was a lady across the road who did not want to into permanent accommodation despite all the efforts that were made.

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I am not really sure what to make of that answer because the Taoiseach is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. It seems that he is seeking to strike a sympathetic note without committing himself really to doing anything to change the situation.

In case the Taoiseach is in any doubt-----

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That sounds very Sinn Féin-like.

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It is all waffle.

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Families are left in bed and breakfast accommodation or hotel rooms, some of them for years. They do not want to be there. They want proper accommodation. The thousands of people on housing lists want their own homes. They want that basic security. This is not just an issue of rough sleepers, although that is the sharpest end of the homeless crisis. I accept that parts of homelessness are complex issues for the person in question, but in policy terms all of this is quite simple. There is nothing complicated about a 200% increase in rough sleepers in 12 months. It should shout "Crisis" at the Taoiseach. The €233 million the Government has cut from the social housing budget since taking up office is not complex. It was a simple decision on the Government's part.

What the Taoiseach needs to resolve today with his colleagues is to tackle this issue and to recognise that one cannot solve a housing or homeless crisis without houses. One cannot end an accommodation crisis without accommodation. This requires the Government to invest. Tea and sympathy will not cut it. Yarns about meeting individuals on the streets, as enlightening as that clearly was for the Taoiseach, will not cut it. When will the Government invest? When will it release funds to local authorities in Dublin and elsewhere to ensure people in bed and breakfast accommodation or hotel rooms or sleeping on the streets will have a place to call home?

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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A Deputy

Sinn Féin burned them out of their homes.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I give the Deputy credit for holding a continuous masters degree for speaking out of the side of her own mouth.

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Hear, hear.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The party she represents is expert at that. I do not come in here to tell the Deputy yarns about people I meet on the street.

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The Taoiseach just did.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

If the Deputy thinks that is some kind of smart alec reply, she is very much mistaken.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy McDonald said to me that I did not understand what was happening on the streets. Name me a predecessor of mine in this position who took time to go down the streets and talk to these people and-----

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They would all have claimed it, with respect.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----who took time to try to understand what has them on the streets, the personal, sensitive difficulties unique to them that they might have.

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Getting a loan from one of the banks. They are still looking for it.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

If the Deputy thinks that it is just a yarn to say that a person tells me where he or she hides a sleeping bag and bits and pieces during the course of the day, if Deputy McDonald believes that this is some kind of smart alec remark, then it is beneath even her to do that, representing the party she represents.

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What is the Taoiseach going to do about it?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I think that homelessness is not just a feature of housing accommodation. There are a range of things that Deputy McDonald has not referred to at all. The Government is revising a public housing policy for the first time in a number of years. It is a requirement and a focus of the Government to work with NAMA, which has units available to it, on all these sources to make these available.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

There were quite a number promised; they have not been delivered.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is also a function of the city council. Why am I being told by Deputies from my own party that there are houses and units derelict and left vacant in this city for a very long time that could provide good accommodation, not bed and breakfasts-----

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What will the Taoiseach do about it?

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The Government will not fund the work.

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The Government made cuts to the councils.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----not one-bedroom apartments, for families and for people like that?

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The Government should buy them.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is a case of the moneys that are provided, scarce though they are, from the central Exchequer-----

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Subsidising private landlords.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----being delivered to best effect. This is an issue that is not new, unfortunately. It is an issue that has fluctuated over the years, but it is a case of organisations and State agencies and Departments and Government working together in the interests of recognising the scale of the problem and how many houses one needs to provide to people.

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The buck stops with the Taoiseach.

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He is in power.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is an engagement also with the agencies that work here-----

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Deputy Finian McGrath was in power for a while as well.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----which have different ranges of figures being put out here for homelessness.

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A Labour Minister, too.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is not an issue the Sinn Féin Party owns. This is about everybody here. These are, in most cases-----

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I am inviting the Taoiseach to do something about it apart from trying to note it.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

In all cases, they are people who are in our country-----

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Like Sinn Féin handled the disappeared?

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Not a word about the homeless in the North.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and who are around the bigger cities in the main.

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What of the disappeared?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We have a duty from a humanity point of view to try to deal with these in the best way possible-----

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The Government has failed in that duty.

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It is not up to that challenge.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----but it is not all about housing.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

If Deputy McDonald wants to take her time to go down the streets herself and talk to some of these people who are sleeping in doorways-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----she, too, might learn a lesson, as I have done.

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Been there, done that.

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The Deputies might learn something.

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