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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Water charges and wealth taxation

Summary

Seamus Healy argues that regressive budgets and proposed water charges burden low- and middle-income families, while wealthy people avoid sufficient taxation. The Tánaiste defends the Government’s capital, property, pension and financial taxes, disputes Healy’s claims, and rejects withdrawing water charges, saying metering with a free household allowance will fund sustainable water services.

The policies of successive Governments have allowed an elite golden circle of the rich and powerful in this country to obtain obscene levels of wealth at a time when the vast majority of people have seen their incomes reduced and have been struggling day in, day out to make ends meet. The message from last week's meeting in Davos and from the Paris School of Economics is that Irish society is becoming more unequal. We are hearing the same message from Oxfam, the Central Statistics Office and the Economic and Social Research Institute. That message is supported by the fact that many of the consultants who recently received substantial payments from Irish Water are the same companies and individuals who were paid for bad advice and bad oversight during the boom. The message is further reinforced by the payment of bonuses, the breach of pay limits for Government advisers and the payment of huge pensions. The list goes on.

In a recent study, the Paris School of Economics showed that the wealthiest 1% of people in Ireland own 10% of national income. Ireland is the seventh worst, in inequality terms, of the 18 countries studied. The figures for accumulated wealth are even more significant and stark. The wealthiest 5% of families in this country own 47% of the wealth. Since this Government came to power, the wealthiest 300 individuals in this country have gained €9 billion, or €30 million each. According to the Central Statistics Office, the incomes of the wealthiest 10% of people in Ireland have increased during the course of the recession, while the incomes of the other 90% of people have decreased. That fall has accelerated as incomes have declined.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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The Economic and Social Research Institute has independently studied the last three budgets and found them to be regressive, which means the budgets have taken the most from those who have the least. Low and middle income families-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

This is a time for questions rather than speeches. Will the Deputy put his question?

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I am putting the question now. Low and middle income families have had their incomes undermined. They have been fleeced by increased taxes, such as the unfair household tax. They are struggling to make ends meet.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I will not ask the Deputy again to put a question rather than making a statement.

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In those circumstances, how can the Government justify the introduction of a new regressive water tax to be paid by families that are already at their wits' end?

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I share with Deputy Healy a wish to see equity in our society.

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Good man, Peter. Give it some welly.

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I want to see fair taxation that ensures those who are in the best position to contribute to the finances of the State do so. The problem is that every time we propose any measures in that regard, Deputy Healy opposes them.

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What has this Government done to address inequality?

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For example, this Government has introduced a number of measures to increase capital taxation. I refer to taxes like capital gains tax, capital acquisitions tax and deposit interest retention tax. To my recollection, Deputy Healy opposed all of those measures.

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The Tánaiste used to oppose water charges at one time.

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When we introduced a property tax, my recollection is that Deputy Healy opposed that as well.

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The Tánaiste is talking about the family home tax.

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I am certainly open to hearing from Deputy Healy specific proposals about taxation or other measures that will contribute to greater equity. There is no point coming into the Dáil to bemoan inequality and excessive wealth and then opposing every measure that is introduced to deal with those issues.

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That was the reserve of the Labour Party when it was in opposition.

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Did the Labour Party not propose a wealth tax and a financial transactions tax?

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That is what got it into government for its short stint.

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If one studies the OECD's examination of our taxation system, one will find that the top 1% of earners in this country, who were mentioned by Deputy Healy, now pay approximately 20% of the income tax. He also referred to the top 5%, who now pay approximately 40% of all the income tax that is paid in this country.

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That is based on income tax only.

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The OECD now considers the Irish tax system to be one of the most progressive among the countries it covers.

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How did they accumulate that wealth? They did it on the backs of the poor.

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I am open to hearing any specific and worthwhile proposals to improve the current position that Deputy Healy might have.

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That would be more than the Tánaiste ever proposed when he was in opposition.

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We have heard the usual spin and untruths from the Tánaiste. Of course I have made proposals regarding wealth and asset taxes in this Chamber on numerous occasions.

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That is right.

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I have also done so in my budget submissions. The top 1% in this country, and indeed the top 10% in this country, have a completely disproportionate share of national income. The Government has refused to implement a wealth tax or an assets tax.

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The Tánaiste is on record as opposing water charges. I would like to quote something he once said.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

This is not about statements.

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He said "the PAYE taxpayer has already paid enough for local services and should not have to pay again".

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Would you put a supplementary question, please?

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In 1994, he said that the Fianna Fáil-Labour Party Government had "imposed Residential Property Tax and now they are making us pay for water".

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That was 20 years ago.

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When water charges were abolished in 1997, he said the Government of the time was right to do that because they were "a form of double taxation".

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He was not in the Labour Party then.

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He could have been in any of three or four parties.

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He might have been in New Agenda.

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Or Democratic Left.

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That was before he went away and became an altar boy.

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The vast majority of people in this country have been fleeced and crucified over recent years. In those circumstances-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry, would you put your question?

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-----and in light of the possibility of imposing wealth and assets taxes on very rich people in this country, will the Government withdraw the water charges that are proposed to commence in November of this year?

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Okay. I will comment on the issue of wealth taxes.

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Is the Tánaiste accepting that I made a proposal in that regard?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy should listen to Tánaiste's reply, whether he likes it or not.

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I am making sure he tells the truth.

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There are three essential forms of wealth: property, pensions, which account for a large part of wealth these days, and money. This Government has introduced additional taxes in each of those three areas of wealth. We have introduced a property tax.

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It is a family home tax.

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We have introduced additional capital taxes. We have introduced an additional tax on pensions that yield over €60,000 a year. We have also introduced additional taxes on money. The idea of coming in here and saying "let's tax wealth" is all very well. It is a grand idea.

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We are talking about net wealth.

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It sounds great and wonderful until-----

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Until one gets into government.

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-----the Government actually comes to do it. The reality is that when the Government comes to do it-----

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-----Deputy Healy opposes it every time.

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It does not have the bottle for it.

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The Labour Party's bosses in Fine Gael say "No".

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Broughan, please.

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The Deputy had his chance but he did not stay around and stand his ground for long enough.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We are over time. If Deputies do not want to hear the Tánaiste's reply, I will just cut off the debate.

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On the issue of water, the Government has decided-----

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To make the ordinary people pay.

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-----to make sustainable provision for water services in this country for probably the next quarter of a century or more. That is a prudent thing to do.

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The Government has decided to fleece families.

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People will have to pay for dirty water.

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The previous Government failed to do that. We made it clear in the programme for Government that a charging arrangement based on a metered system, with a free water allowance for households, would be introduced.

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I thought we had free water now.

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We said that charging for water would take place on a metered basis beyond that free allowance.

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We have not even been told what that allowance will be.

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Rather than exaggerating and telling people that this cost will be very excessive-----

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The Government told lies about the property tax.

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-----Deputies should be assured that the Government is on the side of families and households on this issue.

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The Tánaiste opposed water charges three years ago.

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He certainly opposed them when he was in the Workers Party, Democratic Left and New Agenda.

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