GSOC independence and security concerns
Deputy Adams argues that the Government is undermining GSOC’s independence over its handling of alleged surveillance threats and its communications with the Justice Minister. The Taoiseach rejects this, says the law permitted GSOC to report the matter, and says its appearance before a committee will clarify the controversy; he adds that no definitive bugging evidence was found.
The controversy about whether the office of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission was bugged has highlighted the dysfunctional relationship between GSOC, the Garda Commissioner and the Minister for Justice and Equality. The Government's reaction to this shows that the Taoiseach has not fully embraced the need for independent oversight of State agencies or institutions, despite that recent history has shown that it is the absence of such oversight that has been at the root of many of the recent scandals.
We all know that GSOC is an independent body, committed to upholding the integrity of An Garda Síochána, like all of us here in the Oireachtas. It is charged with the oversight of An Garda Síochána, although not of the Garda Commissioner. The Taoiseach's insistence that GSOC was obliged or compelled to report to the Minister and his repeated misquoting of the Garda Síochána Act 2005, even after I corrected him in this Chamber, has undermined GSOC. That may not have been the Taoiseach's intention, and I accept that we all make little slips, but it may have been the intention of those who leaked the story in the first place. My point is that the Government's reaction has undermined the independence and integrity of GSOC when it should be upholding its integrity and independence.
Will the Taoiseach take the opportunity now to correct the Dáil record by reading into that record section 80(5) of the Garda Síochána Act 2005, which makes it clear that the commission is not obliged to report to the Minister? In fact, the section of the Act states that it may make available any other report it considers appropriate, so GSOC was entirely within its rights not to report to the Minister at the time.
Comment on this
I thank the Deputy. He quoted section 80(5) yesterday. There is a clear provision in the law for GSOC to report major issues to the Minister for Justice and Equality. The commission had knowledge that it should have availed of this provision and reported the matter to the Minister. GSOC discussed that and decided not to do so. The commission regretted that decision and said so to the Minister. The priority has to be to rebuild the sense of trust and integrity in both of these organisations. I was at pains yesterday to point out that it is of the utmost importance that the independence and integrity of GSOC be maintained. That provision in the law to bring the information about this matter to the Minister was not used by the commission, which it regretted.
Any excessive meaning attributed to my words is regretted. I had no intention whatsoever to undermine GSOC in any way, and the commission was clear in its view that it regretted its decision not to inform the Minister under the provision that is in the law.
Comment on this
Here is the difficulty. This independent body was sent for by the Minister. In his first public utterance, the Taoiseach stated that it should have reported the information to the Minister and that it was compelled to do so. There is no provision in the law which insists that GSOC must report to the Minister. Whether that is the right thing is an entirely different matter. The fact is there is an independence which is being undermined.
I do not wish to compare like with like, but I was one of those who helped to negotiate a new policing dispensation in the North. The majority of people in the Six Counties support the PSNI, but it contains an independent police authority, an ombudsman who has an ability to look at all aspects of the policing operation and so on. That is what the Garda Síochána needs, and it would be good for the policing service if that was the case. If we look at this bugging controversy, the penalty points scandal, the whistleblowers' debacle, and even the recent Garda role in the case involving Roma children, what did the Minister do? He referred the last case to the Ombudsman for Children. These cases were the very reason GSOC was established, but on each occasion the Minister sidelined the ombudsman and went somewhere else. Unlike the North, GSOC does not have unfettered access to Garda computer systems. In particular, it has no oversight over the Garda Commissioner.
I am disappointed the Taoiseach did not correct the record on the Garda Síochána Act 2005, but yesterday he said that GSOC concluded there was no definitive evidence of unauthorised surveillance. That begs another question on whether there are technical or electronic-----
Comment on this
Ní bheidh mé ach nóiméad amháin. Last night, the Garda Síochána Ombudsman commissioner, Kieran Fitzgerald, was equally clear in stating that a credible threat to GSOC security had been identified when the screening of its office was carried out. The response of the Government and the culture and the atmosphere are not conducive to transparency, accountability and to an effective and efficient oversight of a modern police service. On the contrary, they lead to conspiracy theories and all sorts of nonsense.
The Taoiseach should correct the record. He should also reconsider his refusal to have a fully independent inquiry. There is plenty of scope for this. It would clear things up, so we can all go ahead.
Comment on this
I thank the Deputy. I reject his assertion that I intended in any way to undermine the independence of GSOC. On the contrary, I was very clear about maintaining its independence, integrity and its oversight responsibility of the Garda. The provision is in the law that GSOC may report to the Minister for Justice and Equality-----
Comment on this
That is not what the Taoiseach said.
Comment on this
-----and the commission considered that. It decided not to inform the Minister for Justice and Equality, and it has regretted that decision. I think we can put that behind us now.
Comment on this
GSOC is appearing before the committee this afternoon, and I am quite sure the issues which require clarification will be dealt with by the commissioners when they attend.
The Deputy made a point about bugging devices. GSOC made it clear there was no specific concern which led to the security sweep. The commission concluded there was no definitive evidence of unauthorised technical or electrical surveillance of its offices. This was confirmed last night by the GSOC commissioner on "Prime Time".
He also stated he had no issue with what the Minister had said. Moreover, the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission was very clear in confirming its databases have not been compromised. It concluded in its findings that no definitive evidence existed and decided that no further action was necessary or reasonably practicable.
The Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission is an independent entity. Deputy Adams wants a public inquiry into an independent entity which has every capacity to carry out its own investigations, as it has done and these were its findings. I hope its representatives, when they appear before the committee set up by the Government on taking office, will be able to provide the clarification or answers to questions that Deputies from all sides of the House may wish to ask. I hope we can move on with maintaining the balance of integrity and credibility that the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission has in respect of the job and responsibilities allocated to it in respect of oversight of the Garda Síochána.