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Dáil
‹ Order of Business

Banking inquiry committee independence

Summary

Deputy Martin challenged the Government’s need for a committee majority and accused it of seeking control over the banking inquiry’s terms of reference. The Taoiseach defended the requirement, while heated exchanges led to the sitting being suspended; he also said the lobbyist Bill would return to Government.

Why does the Government need a majority?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We cannot have a discussion on this now.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

A majority is needed because the committee will issue a report and will have to be able to adopt terms of reference.

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What about goodwill?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

If we do not have a majority, we cannot do that. How do I know what the members will do?

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It is up to the committee to decide its terms of reference.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Yes, but-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I ask Deputy Martin to resume his seat.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----the Government members of the committee-----

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This is very serious. We are talking here about Government interference-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Please resume your seat, Deputy.

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I do not understand this.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I did not interrupt the Deputy. A committee has to be able to adopt terms of reference.

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The committee does?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Yes, but we cannot do that unless we have approval from the committee.

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Is the Taoiseach doubting the members?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

How do I know what Deputy Martin's party members will do?

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We only have two members.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

On the lobbyists-----

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This is extraordinary-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy is getting his answer. He might not like it, but-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is not extraordinary.

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What the Taoiseach has just said is extraordinary.

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Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Independent

The committee's terms of reference are not the business of the Executive.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We are not having a discussion on this now. I ask Deputy Martin to resume his seat.

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This is an extraordinary revelation by the Taoiseach. He is saying that the Government wants to dominate the committee and decide the terms of reference. If it does not get its own way, there will not be any terms of reference. That is what he just said.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will Deputy Martin please respect the Chair?

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Does the Taoiseach realise the degree to which he is undermining the impartiality of the committee?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will the Deputy please respect the Chair and resume his seat?

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The Taoiseach needs to respect the House.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy should resume his seat and show some respect for the Chair, regardless of who is occupying it.

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I am showing respect but what is happening here is extraordinary.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy's behaviour is extraordinary.

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My behaviour is not extraordinary at all.

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Eric J. Byrne Deputy Eric Byrne Labour Party

Deputy Martin is supposed to be the leader of the Opposition. He is a disgrace.

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What is extraordinary is that the Taoiseach has stated that he is going to dictate the terms of reference.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy should remain quiet or I will suspend the sitting.

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This is extraordinary stuff.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I have no time-----

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It is simply extraordinary.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Martin should not be hopping up and down trying to interject. He should address his remarks through the Chair.

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I am not hopping up and down. I normally do not do this but the Taoiseach has made extraordinary comments to the effect that the terms of reference will be dictated by the Government and no one else.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will Deputy Martin please sit down?

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He stated "I do not have a majority".

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will the Deputy sit down?

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Eric J. Byrne Deputy Eric Byrne Labour Party

The Ceann Comhairle should throw Deputy Martin out of the House.

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The Ceann Comhairle should calm down. I am making my point.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I call the Taoiseach and I do not want there to be a debate on this issue. We are on the Order of Business and dealing with legislation promised.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I have no time for Deputy Martin's false anger.

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It is not false anger.

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On a point of order-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will Deputy Martin please-----

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-----the Leader of the Seanad uttered an innuendo about a Member of that House. Said innuendo related to the particular Member's character and it was stated that he had a conflict of interests. The Taoiseach has now stated that all of this relates to the fact that the Government wants a majority on the inquiry.

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Eric J. Byrne Deputy Eric Byrne Labour Party

Deputy Martin is a bully.

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The Taoiseach has just confirmed what he is up to. That is what he has been doing all along.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I am suspending the sitting.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I call Deputy Adams on the Order of Business.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

A Cheann Comhairle, there is one other matter-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I hope it does not relate to the issue that was being discussed prior to the suspension.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

No, it has nothing to do with that. Deputy Martin inquired about the lobbyist Bill. The latter will come before the Government next week.

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