Protests against water-meter installation
Joan Collins raises widespread protests against water-meter installation, arrests and the deployment of Gardaí, arguing that residents are peacefully resisting an unjust charge and have a right to protest. The Tánaiste defends Irish Water and Garda conduct, citing infrastructure needs, court proceedings and alleged intimidation or blockades, and asks Collins to provide evidence of Garda wrongdoing; the exchange ends amid extensive political heckling.
I want to raise the protests against the installation of water meters which are taking place in big estates across the city and country.
I want to state that contrary to what the Taoiseach said when I raised this issue last week, it is not the case that these protests are being organised by outsiders. It is not a case of the usual suspects to whom the Taoiseach referred. These protests are taking place spontaneously. Local residents, including children, are demonstrating their objections to the water charges. I want to raise the question of the right to engage in peaceful protest, as guaranteed under Article 40 of the Constitution, which refers to "the right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms". These protests were taking place peacefully until someone somewhere decided to change the approach that was being taken. As a result, peaceful protests are being forcibly broken up by large numbers of gardaí. People have been manhandled, pushed, pulled and shoved, in an aggressive manner in some cases. There have been numerous arrests. I will give an example. Nineteen gardaí were brought in to protect Irish Water workers at a very small estate of 27 houses off Clanbrassil Street in my constituency.
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We could do with them on O'Connell Street.
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One resident was taken to hospital yesterday with an ankle injury. Twenty-six gardaí were taken from stations across Dublin to get involved in what was happening in Clare Hall. The focus has switched today to St. Donagh's Road in Donaghmede, where over 100 residents have come out to protest. There is a large Garda presence and two arrests have been made. Is this not a strange use of limited Garda resources? Does it not raise questions about political policing? Is it right that the police force is being mobilised to break up popular resistance to an unjust tax? These protests are going to spread. It is not sustainable for the Garda to have such numbers policing these protests, which last all day. Any suggestion that these peaceful protests can be crushed by the use of large numbers of gardaí is fanciful. I assure the Tánaiste that the Government will see the real extent of the opposition to these water charges, and the anger that exists now that they have been imposed in addition to the property tax, on Saturday when tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of people will demonstrate in favour of the right to water. Would it not be better for the Government to accept the reality now by scrapping the water charges? A motion condemning the heavy-handed tactics that are being used to try to suppress these protestors was passed by Dublin City Council this week. The Lord Mayor of Dublin has indicated that he wants to meet the Garda Commissioner because he is unhappy with the actions of a small number of gardaí. Will the Tánaiste consider intervening to defend the right to peaceful protest?
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I have to say in response to the Deputy's long prepared statement that I have received many complaints from people who find themselves intimidated by those who are taking over their estates and deciding what their attitude to Irish Water should be. I understand there is a range of views on Irish Water in this country. It might come as news to the Deputy that many people want the very bad situation that has existed in relation to investment in our water services to be changed and turned around. One of the problems is that people in the country are on boil water notices because the water infrastructure is totally deficient. A vigorous and expensive investment programme is needed to remove the lead pipes in significant parts of our urban areas, which need to be removed for the sake of older people and children. High-quality water is needed in the greater Dublin region, in particular, so it can continue to attract a huge amount of construction and investment in jobs. Then it can be done not just in Dublin, but also right around the country. They are the arguments in favour of why we, as a country, should have made a huge investment in water infrastructure in the past.
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The Tánaiste and her colleagues opposed that for years.
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There is very little consistency around here.
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The Tánaiste should answer the question about Garda resources.
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I am not saying they did not mean well. As a consequence of the completely disjointed approach that was taken at that time, investment is needed so that we can make progress as a country. From a health point of view, we must ensure safer water is made available to children and older people, in particular. We must ensure water is treated properly and with due regard to people's health and the need for investment in jobs and employment. I would like to say something about these protestors. The matter has been before the courts. I will not comment on how the courts deal with issues as they arise.
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The Tánaiste was not asked to do so.
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I have seen the gardaí in a number of situations in which they have acted with extraordinary patience, firmness and courtesy to people who have been giving them an extremely difficult and hard time. I think the gardaí have responded with complete professionalism. I do not want to comment on the issues that are before the courts. Approximately 1,000 men have jobs working in Irish Water and for Irish Water.
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I am reminded of the refuse collection campaign in which Deputy Collins and others were involved many decades ago.
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A few gardaí should be transferred from estates around the country to O'Connell Street.
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They are all paying bin charges now.
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The Tánaiste did not answer my question.
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It has been a habit of those on the Government benches. The Tánaiste repeated what has been said on a number of occasions in the Dáil this week. I put it to her that people are coming out of their houses in extraordinary numbers. I have never seen a spontaneous reaction like it in my life. Irish Water came into Crumlin each morning for 15 days. The residents came out of their homes to stand over the shores. The workmen sat in their vans all day and got paid for doing so. They moved out of Crumlin after 15 days without a single water meter being installed.
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The same thing happened in Drimnagh over a five-day period. As these men get paid regardless of whether the water meters are installed, the argument used by the Tánaiste is absolutely false. She is trying to throw the issue in another way by raising dust in people's eyes. Ordinary people - women, children and men who are absolutely opposed to the installation of water meters - are protesting peacefully in our communities. Will the Tánaiste agree with me that people have a right to say "No" and that this should result in those installing the meters moving on to the next place where people are happy to have water meters? Will she condemn the tactics of a small number of gardaí who are stepping out of control and creating chaos in our communities?
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All of the protestors I have seen seem to have extremely expensive phones, tablets and video cameras.
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That is not important. They are ordinary citizens.
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The Tánaiste needs to be serious.
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The Labour Party will go down by another three percentage points.
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Will the Deputies allow the Tánaiste to answer? They might not like what she is saying, but she should be allowed to speak.
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All of these actions have been the subject of the most extensive filming I have ever seen anywhere.
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All the material from the protests, particularly anything that looks controversial, is immediately posted on Facebook, YouTube and everything else. I have a look at it from time to time.
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The Tánaiste should look at the old clips from when she was opposed to water charges.
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I would like to know whether Deputy Collins can show us anything from all the filming that is going on that supports her suggestion that gardaí are behaving improperly. I do not think the extensive filming that has been going on shows that. It is certainly the case that there is a great deal of confrontation on all the films. The Deputy does not appear to accept that some of these matters have been before the courts. In that case, the gardaí may have a duty in the context of court orders. I do not intend to comment on that because the courts have their job to do. I think that nowadays, the Deputy pays her bin charges to a privatised refuse company.
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She was one of the lead stars in that show.
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The Deputy told people not to pay bin charges.
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The Deputies got them all privatised.
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The Deputies are paying their bin charges now, are they not? They destroyed Dublin City Council.
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Deputy Joan Collins got elected to the council and told people not to pay their bin charges. Look at what happened to them.
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They are paying their bin charges, too. They would privatise their grannies.
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As a Minister of State, Deputy Ó Ríordáin should show greater restraint and respect his leader.
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Please, this sort of rowdyism does not appeal to anyone. Deputies should come to my office to hear the complaints. The same individuals are involved everyday. Please, we are in a democratically elected Chamber. People are entitled to their views and to express them properly without being shouted down.
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I just have one final sentence to say, and it is this: if the Deputy has evidence in respect of the matters that she is raising she should bring it to the Garda because the Garda clearly operates in this country as a very professional force. The Deputy should also bear in mind, notwithstanding what she said earlier, that a lot of people do not like some of the people - not all of them - who have arrived in estates to organise, arrange and create blockades. They would like those people to leave their estates.
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Are they going to say that when there is a large organised protest? Not particularly for reasons that the Deputy and I understand, but privately that is what they are telling people.
The last point is this: if the Deputy encourages people to run up large water debts as she encouraged people to do on previous occasions in respect of other public charges, she knows as I do that the consequence for a lot of ordinary families is that they will become mired in very difficult debt situations.
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They have been left with the debt of bankers and bondholders.