Back in 2009, the Fine Gael Party, in a policy document entitled NewERA, said it would bring all of Ireland's water assets under the ownership of one State company, Irish Water. Its document goes into considerable detail as to how Irish Water would be a super-lean and efficient operation in terms of organising the Irish water supply. Yesterday, we saw and read that the Fine Gael Deputies are now very angry with the utility they conceived of and how it has turned out, and I understand the Labour party had a meeting with Irish Water two weeks ago. Meanwhile, I understand the Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht has written twice - or Deputy Cowen certainly has - asking to bring Irish Water before that committee, but that has not happened.

The basic point I want to put to the Tánaiste is this. I asked the Taoiseach yesterday in the House what he believed the net revenue estimate would be as a result of the imposition of water charges for domestic users - what he felt the Government would get in net revenue. He could not answer me. We have done our own calculations and we looked at responses to parliamentary questions which have come back from the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, who estimated there would be gross revenue of €300 million from domestic charges. Of course, that does not factor in the €65 million for the household benefits package or the €40 million for the tax credit, and I presume more will have to be done for the 200,000 people who are not covered by either the benefits package or the tax exemption. Therefore, even at 100% compliance, we are now looking at a net revenue figure of something like €175 million. If there is anything less than full compliance, we are looking at less than €150 million. Yet the Government has spent €650 million on the start-up costs of Irish Water. It has caused huge social upheaval, it is a gold-plated bureaucracy that is being paid for at an extraordinary level, which is really making people angry, and it has caused mayhem across local authorities, taking engineers out of every local authority in the country and swapping staff, with pension deals done to get people into Irish Water. One would have to stand back from it all and ask a very basic question. All of that for a net revenue of maybe €150 million plus-----

Thank you, Deputy.

Is Deputy O'Dowd not right in many respects that the whole execution, implementation and establishment of Irish Water has been an unmitigated disaster-----

It is crazy.

It is a super-quango.

-----and it does not justify the yield by any business model or any definition? All of that does not justify the yield of about €150 million. While I am not even suggesting this, putting 5 cent on a gallon of petrol would have raised the equivalent amount of revenue.

Was it worth the hassle?

Deputy Martin has given a very good resume of the role of one of the political parties in 2009, when the State was in considerable difficulty due to the collapse of the finances of the State following Deputy Martin's own actions in regard to the bank guarantee and, subsequently, in regard to the State being unable to raise funds at reasonable prices.

The creation of Irish Water - this is important - is as big an undertaking as was the creation of the ESB as a major public utility-----

No, it is not. That is nonsense.

We did not have electricity then.

Order, please. The Tánaiste has the floor.

-----at the foundation of the State. Irish Water is a publicly owned water service which is in State ownership and will stay in State ownership, which, in the context of some of the advice that was being received internationally by the members of the Opposition opposite me, is a significant achievement. This will allow for an investment in the next couple of years of €1.7 billion, which will be in a vehicle, a public utility owned by the State, which, like the ESB, will be able to raise money internationally.

The Deputy is suggesting that the return from Irish Water, because it is a State-owned company, will not be the same kind of return that a privately owned utility might yield.

He never said that.

The Tánaiste is distorting what he said.

He is probably correct on that. However, I believe he should actually welcome that because what we are going to get is investment into Irish Water. I just heard another Deputy refer to the level of national debt, which is high but has begun to come down significantly. In terms of cleverly managing the finances of the State on a sustainable basis, we have to invest seriously in Irish Water.

I have been shocked to read constantly since Irish Water was developed that there are lead pipes bringing water to homes-----

Where has the Tánaiste been living?

What about the bonuses?

-----in many of the 34 local authorities which previously ran what we now know to have been a completely disjointed, if not dangerous and dysfunctional service.

If that is the case, why waste €1 billion on meters?

That is going to be replaced by a national consumer-focused utility company-----

Consumer-focused? They will not answer calls.

Consumers cannot even contact them.

It took 29 minutes to get through on the telephone.

Maybe we should get a loan of the Tánaiste's mobile phone and ring them.

Order, please.

-----whose job is to deliver clean, healthy water to people in Ireland. Right around Ireland, not least in the Dublin region, many families and individuals have experience in the last few years of their water supply being cut off-----

Are they not going to turn it off now?

-----because, as we know, there was not enough water to supply the Dublin region.

Where the Labour Party has been in control.

Who controlled the council? Who controlled the water supply in Dublin? It was the Labour Party.

On many occasions, water usage in Dublin runs at around 97% of the available supply-----

This is Leaders' Questions. A question was asked and the Tánaiste wants to reply.

What we are talking about is a clean, reliable, healthy water supply-----

All steam and hot air.

-----which is sufficient for families and individual consumers, run by a publicly owned water company, not a privatised water company charging whatever it likes, which, by the way, is unfortunately what happened in regard to some of the campaigns concerning refuse collection.

The Tánaiste is spoofing. She is talking down the clock.

Thank you, Tánaiste.

I would expect Fianna Fáil to actually welcome €1.7 billion in investment in clean, safe water.

What about the bonuses?

As a former Minister for Health, Deputy Martin is one of the few people who would have a detailed appreciation of the dangers to children and to older people of unhealthy water transmitted through lead pipes.

The pipes are in the gardens.

Thank you, Tánaiste. I call Deputy Martin.

We have had the debate about Roscommon, and we know that, but we have to look at what the local authorities have revealed about Irish water since we replaced 34 separate systems with one national system.

With one dysfunctional body.

That system will take time to bed down, and I acknowledge that. I acknowledge that there are communications issues and establishment problems, but it is a very big national enterprise.

There are many ways to raise funding and many ways to do things. The Fine Gael Party, not in any context of the prevailing situation, believed in establishing a whole range of utilities. This was in its NewERA document, which the current Minister, Deputy Coveney, developed at that time. I do not know who worked with him to develop those ideas, but they were very strong and bullish about it. To be fair, they also said that local authorities would act as agents for Irish Water in maintaining and upgrading water infrastructure. In other words, the delivery system remains within the local authorities despite the incredible edifice that has been established at a start-up cost of €650 million.

I asked the Tánaiste a very simple question. We have had four ways of assessing water charges. This is the 16th day on which water charges have been imposed and many are still hopelessly confused about what the bills will. Some of the water metering process is of a dubious nature because, from what we are told, some people will not even be able to read their meters. The bottom line is that all it is, in revenue terms, is €150 million; that is the net amount that will be raised. It has caused huge issues within local authorities which will have legacy issues to deal with down the line in terms of pension payments. The bottom line is that the Government must stand back and ask a very simple and basic question. Is it worth it? Is the establishment of Irish Water worth all of the challenges and the extraordinary expense involved in setting up a gold-plated bureaucracy?

I have the figures from Ervia. The Taoiseach told the Dáil last week that no bonuses had been paid to Irish Water staff. The Tánaiste might clarify for me or obtain clarification for me because Ervia has certainly paid out over €5 million to about 900 staff in 2014. Last year, it had 500 staff on the books. I need clarification as to whether that figure includes personnel within Irish Water. The Tánaiste may not have the information at her disposal, but will she undertake to get it for me? However, the basic question I am putting to her is whether all of this - the €650 million in start-up costs and more - is worth the €150 million in net revenue? Surely it could have been done in a much easier way with greater compliance from the public who would have engaged in a far more supportive way in the context of the Irish Water debacle? I am not using the word "debacle"; it relates to comments made by the former Minister of State, Deputy Fergus O'Dowd, who established Irish Water. Words failed him in describing it and he was involved in setting it up.

The question the Deputy is raising concerns whether it is worthwhile investing in and developing a clean, reliable water supply for the people of Ireland.

I did not say that.

I am answering the Deputy's question. There were 34 local authorities doing this during the Celtic tiger era when the Deputy was in office as Minister for Health when he often spoke extremely convincingly about public health issues, for which I recognised him, and defended the adequacy of public health services. The stuff that went on in local authorities, even during the richest period in the recent history of the country, did not result in the provision of drinkable water. The Deputy may remember what happened in Galway. When one almost went to the borders of Galway, people involved in every kind of business were handing out bottles of water because the water was undrinkable. These failures which the Deputy may remember happened during his time as Minister for Health and about which I recall him speaking stemmed from a lack of investment in proper water treatment facilities.

One of the most difficult aspects of this issue for people is the fact that we know that we have so much rain. How is it that we have the chaos that happened in Galway, with almost the total destruction of tourism and commerce at the time? The Deputy must remember it because his party came into the House and answered very concerned and worried Members with questions at the time. If he wants to take a responsible view of politics, further investment to ensure the health of citizens and the adequacy of water supplies are essential. I am telling him that the best way to do this is not through 34 local authorities which failed but through a single, modern, consumer-focused utility which will not be gold-plated but which will actually deliver a proper service at a cheap and efficient price to consumers. It is going to take time to establish it, but it will be established.