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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Irish Water investment and data protection

Summary

Deputy Wallace questions the appointment of Irish Water’s chief executive, access to local-authority databases, possible privatisation, and the lack of investment in leaks, water quality and surface-water systems. The Taoiseach defends Irish Water’s structure, says it will not be privatised, cannot immediately confirm the data-protection arrangement, and cites planned remediation of treatment plants and lead pipes.

The Taoiseach's 100% confidence in Mr. John Tierney is akin to his 100% confidence in the former Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence, Deputy Shatter.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy must not mention people's names in the Chamber.

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Okay. When I challenged the appointment of Mr. Tierney by the former Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, and asked why an engineer or other person with experience in water had not been appointed to the position, I was assured Mr. Tierney was the right man for the job. While it appears that this was a political appointment, I agree that throwing Mr. Tierney under the bus would not solve any problems.

The Taoiseach said that, as in the case of SUSI, Irish Water needs time to settle down. If that is what he truly believes, he is missing a great deal. The structure of Irish Water is wrong. While Irish Water is taking over responsibility for water and waste services, it is not taking over responsibility for surface water, storm water and flooding. The reason for this is because one cannot charge people for storm water or flooding. It is not possible to make any money out of doing that, and as flooding is unpredictable, it would be unattractive to a buyer. The Taoiseach has assured us the service will never be privatised. If he is so sure of that, is he prepared to amend the Constitution by way of referendum to ensure that remains the case, as was done in Italy when 96% of people there voted against Berlusconi's attempt to privatise water services?

Irish Water was established on the advice of consultants that a new model rather than the local authorities should be responsible for water services. Even though €85 million was spent on advice, it turned out to be useless and included protocols that did not work, including a protocol in relation to connections which was a total nonsense. Irish Water is in communication with the local authorities on how to make these protocols work. It is at stage five of the tweaking process.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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Irish Water is also seeking access to local authority databases countrywide. Is there in place a data protection agreement between Irish Water and the Data Protection Commissioner regarding local authority databases? Is the Taoiseach prepared to provide by way of referendum and amendment of the Constitution that Irish Water can never be privatised?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Irish Water will not be privatised, as already provided for in legislation. I am prepared to stand by that. I do not accept the Deputy's assertion that the structure of Irish Water is wrong.

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The Taoiseach is the only one who does not.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Coming from the south east, the Deputy knows of the inadequate and different standards applied by some local authorities. It is necessary to have in place a system throughout the country which ensures the highest standards in terms of the production, treatment and utilisation of water. To be honest with the Deputy, I do not believe Irish Water has done itself justice, including when its officials appeared before an Oireachtas committee earlier this year, in terms of setting out what people will get for the contributions they make, including, for example, the priority they attach to the quality of drinking water. I am sure Deputy Wallace, like Deputy Fitzmaurice, would not want 20,000 people in Roscommon to continue to have to boil water prior to use. It is time to deal with that issue. Substantial investments were made last year in the treatment works which will sort out that problem for those people. There are a number of towns throughout the country where lead piping exists and in respect of which Irish Water has issued advice pending replacement of those lead pipes which can be a serious cause of concern to people and their health.

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The lead is over there now.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As Deputy Wallace is aware, this issue has been ongoing for many years. Clearly, those 20,000 people cannot be left in that situation. I do not accept the Deputy's statement that the structure is wrong. I believe the Government has done the right thing in setting up Irish Water as an entity that will not be privatised and can borrow off balance sheet for investment to improve the quality of the services given to people, business and so on. It is a matter for Ervia, with Irish Water, to address the practical problems being experienced daily by people in terms of communicating with them about their particular situations.

In so far as Government is concerned, there is a need for improved clarity for people in order that they can have confidence that the contributions they make will go towards the improvement of the infrastructure and water quality for all our people and businesses. While some decisions in this regard remain to be made, Ervia, Irish Water and the Government will see to it that happens.

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The Taoiseach stated there has been under-investment in Irish water. In my view, there is still under-investment in this area in that the Government is not investing in it at all. All Government is doing is investing in a process that can charge for water. It is creating an entity that is saleable. It is not investing in water and has taken no action to mend the leaks or in respect of retrofitting, harvesting or pressure control on taps. This Government does not appear to give a damn about water. It has done nothing about improving water quality and is currently only spending money on the creation of a structure that can charge for water services, which entity will in the future be saleable. Why have waste treatment plants been put on the long finger? There is currently no investment in waste treatment plants, which means that because we are way behind in this regard, we will be faced with fines by the EU.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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If the Government was truly concerned about improving water quality in Ireland, rather than create an entity that can charge for it and will in future be saleable, it would have invested in the local authorities doing so. The Taoiseach might say that the local authorities did not take the opportunity to do so for many years, but they were never given the money to do so. Why was this not regionalised? The four local authorities in Dublin working in conjunction with Wicklow, Kildare and Meath county councils could, with investment, have dealt with the problems identified. Reference was made to lead pipes. The lead pipes are located on the house side.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please, Deputy.

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This means that if they need fixing-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Ask your question, please.

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People are to be charged €188 for a call-out. The four-inch cast iron pipes on the main side will be replaced rather than fixed. One system operates in Dublin city. Surface water goes into waste. Irish Water is to charge for surface water going into waste. When will a surface water system be put in place and who will pay for it because Irish Water will not? The Taoiseach might also respond to my earlier question of whether there is in place a data protection agreement between Irish Water and the Data Protection Commissioner in regard to the local authority databases from which Irish Water is seeking PPS numbers.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy is way over time. Please adhere to the Chair.

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Is there an agreement in place?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I do not know the answer to that question. I can tell the Deputy that there is an agreement in place between Irish Water and the Department of Social Protection in respect of PPS numbers. I will confirm at a later date the position in respect of the question raised by the Deputy.

The Deputy makes the case for the establishment of Irish Water. There are 126 plants in respect of which remedial action is required. These plants are inferior in standard and need to be attended to. The money to deal with them was never available. That is part of the programme being set out by Irish Water.

In Vartry, here in Dublin, major investment of €150 million is needed to bring what is a 19th century scheme up to modern standards. That cannot be fully delivered until the end of the planned period, which is 2020, subject to planning permissions.

In terms of lead pipes, there are virtually no lead pipes left in the mains distribution system-----

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They are everywhere.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----but 100,000 homes are connected to lead service pipes.

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Take that back.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Irish Water has set out a ten-year timeframe to eliminate those service pipes into houses that will service another 3,000 to 4,000 homes, but there is an estimated cost in that respect of between €200 million and €300 million.

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And asbestos pipes too.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Perhaps Irish Water has published this but it has not been transmitted down to people through the local radio systems so that they will know the timescales in terms of what is involved here in each area. For instance, it gives advice where people have a service pipe into their house which is comprised in part of lead. Irish Water proposes to install chemicals in the Limerick city plant within the next eight weeks which it believes will help to lower the levels of lead as the chemical will put a lining on the inside of the pipes. Deputy Wallace should know that many good practical improvements are being made-----

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A Deputy

It is a start.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and it is a case for Ervia and Irish Water to get out there and explain to people what is happening. It is a requirement of government to set out standards and provide clarity so that people know the charge and the structure of what is involved. In that way, they can have confidence in signing up.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Thousands of people are registering every day for a situation which will improve water quality, improve water standards, improve infrastructure, and will be in situ for the next 50 years for the good of the people of the country.

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It is a dysfunctional monster.

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