Irish Water bonuses and structure
Deputy Cowen pressed the Tánaiste on Irish Water’s proposed bonus scheme and costs, while she said bonuses would be decided by Ervia’s board and were not expected during the set-up period. She defended the company’s wider investment and warned that reversing its structure could cost up to €2.5 billion.
The plot in relation to Irish Water thickens every day. It is like a cure searching for a remedy. Phil Hogan said that one normally has to crack a few eggs to make an omelette. In the case of the Irish Water entity that was put in place by this Government, omelettes are being made before any eggs are cracked. This day last week, the Tánaiste was asked specific questions about the bonus scheme in Irish Water. She did not answer the question at all. The Taoiseach informed the House on 7 October last that there would be no bonus scheme or payments in Irish Water. We are led to believe that a report to the Government in 2012 specifically outlined the schemes pertaining to Bord Gáis and, subsequently, to Irish Water. On Monday, the Ministers, Deputies Jan O'Sullivan and Alan Kelly, said the bonus scheme will be dealt with when the new board is appointed. We were told on Tuesday that the Minister, Deputy Kelly, would meet the chief executive officer and tell him a few home truths. Despite those home truths, Mr. Tierney arrived out of a meeting yesterday and said his staff are doing a fantastic job and deserve their bonuses and the bonus scheme within Irish Water. The Taoiseach informed the House at another point on Tuesday that he does not believe anyone who underperforms should be given a bonus or performance pay in the first place. Does the Tánaiste agree that the staff in Irish Water are doing a fantastic job, considering their very performance is determined by a policy direction of the Government? Does she think they are entitled to or should receive bonuses?
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The development of Irish Water and the employment of staff in Irish Water is akin for our times to the establishment of the ESB shortly after the foundation of the State.
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It was not. It was a very popular project.
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When Deputy Cowen's party leader, Deputy Martin, was inquiring about the bonuses during last week's discussion, he asked how much it would cost to go back to the 34 separate local authority water structures and to take the current Irish Water structure back onto the balance sheet. The taxpayers and citizens of this country want an efficient and effective water system. The cost of doing what Fianna Fáil appears to want to do is very significant. It would initially cost €600 million to take it onto the balance sheet, as Fianna Fáil seems to be suggesting. I know that, in reality, it is holding a range of options. The revenues raised would incur a cost of a further €300 million. The commitment in terms of the capital investment - Deputies on all sides of the House will agree that this is vital - would cost another €1.7 billion over a three-year period. I want the message to be sent to taxpayers that the cost of what Fianna Fáil is proposing with regard to Irish Water would place a burden of €2.5 billion back onto the shoulders of those who ultimately pay taxes. I am saying that Fianna Fáil has not costed its options at all.
There has been an area that is disappointing in relation to Irish Water. I understand the frustrations and concerns of people, as highlighted by Deputy Cowen and other members of his party during this week's Private Members' debate. I think the timeline for Irish Water was certainly too ambitious. It is an undertaking as big as the ESB for our times. It involves bringing together 34 separate authorities. Most important, the investment about which I have just spoken will ensure that by the new year, the people of Roscommon will be able to have a glass of water from their taps.
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That is not to be sneezed at. As Deputy Cowen said, the Taoiseach and others are on the record on the issue of how the staff are paid. This matter will be dealt with by the board of Ervia. I do not anticipate any bonus payments in the context of the set-up period. A bonus is a reward for work that is done. We are very much in the set-up period. In any event, it is a structured payment in relation to salaries which actually forgoes increments. As the Deputy knows, and he has seen the documentation, which is in the public domain, the scheme was designed to save money.
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I thank the Tánaiste for her response. Unfortunately, she did not answer the question I asked. I did not ask her to reassure the House, or to give any further detail about the cost associated with putting this bonus-driven, gold-plated super quango in place. Some €700 million has been spent to date without a pipe in the ground being fixed anywhere in the country. I asked the Tánaiste to say what she thinks of the bonus system in Irish Water today. Having gone round the houses, she eventually said she does not think any such payments should be made during the set-up period. What does she think?
I will ask her directly again. Does she agree with them, or does she not? Does she agree with them during the set-up? Does she agree with them when Irish Water has been set up and is in place, robbing Peter? It is a very simple fact the Tánaiste is going to have to answer. I would like her to be honest and to answer the question directly. Will the bonus scheme go ahead or will the Government succumb to the pressure that I heard from Labour Party and Fine Gael backbenchers when we debated the Fianna Fáil motion over the past hour? They are blaming the Tánaiste and her colleagues in government for allowing this and putting this in place. That is what they did, whether they like it or not. Does the Tánaiste agree with what they did? Does she agree with it into the future? Will she do something about it? If she does not intend to do so, she should be clear about it. The backbenchers need to know. If that is what they think, they can withdraw their support for the Tánaiste and her Government.
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The Tánaiste is taking out the violin.
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The Deputies opposite have probably wiped it from their memories, and I can understand why.
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That carry-on won one election, but it will not win another one.
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When the troika came into Ireland, the guys opposite - they are all guys - decided to sign off-----
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I see Sinn Féin is all guys today as well. I am glad to see Deputies Maureen O'Sullivan and Joan Collins are here.
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The guys and the gals are getting bonuses.
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When the guys signed off on it, they agreed with the troika there would be a comprehensive change in relation to water in Ireland in line with every other European country. They agreed a flat rate charging arrangement, or something like that, which came out at €400 per household.
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You guys and you gals put this in place.
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This Government agreed the bonuses.
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If we were to do what Fianna Fáil is now proposing in relation to Irish Water, which is to take the company out and put it back to taxpayers-----
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What about the bonuses agreed by this Government?
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The taxpayers are paying for the bonuses.
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Does the Tánaiste agree with bonuses, or does she not?
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I want an answer, rather than an analogy.
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The tax package in the budget and the spending package are each worth €500 million.
The Deputy is casually, without thinking, telling the taxpayers that here is another debt costing €2.5 billion per annum.
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Irish Water is dead. We just have to wait for the funeral.
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Quieten down, Mattie. Back in your box.
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I do not anticipate any bonus payment, any enhancement payment or whatever other kind of management speak title is used for the payments being paid-----
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Some €5.16 million will be paid next year. That figure comes from a response to one of our parliamentary questions.
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The Government is charging for it as we speak.
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-----will have drinking water by the new year. I certainly know in Dublin that there is a huge amount of very good work being done by Irish Water to upgrade the facilities in terms of clean water. We need that for people, tourism and business.
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I am not saying we do not need it. Is the Tánaiste saying that she agrees with bonuses?