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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Government confusion over water charges

Summary

Deputy Gerry Adams pressed the Taoiseach to clarify the charge for a four-adult family and criticised the Government’s handling of Irish Water. The Taoiseach said the final contribution and charging structure remained undecided, but defended metering, caps and Irish Water’s role in financing essential infrastructure.

Yesterday the Tánaiste told the Dáil that a family of four adults will pay a water tax bill of €200. This figure was later quickly rejected by her own spokesperson and the Taoiseach's spokesperson. There were media briefings by the Government suggesting the Tánaiste was expressing a personal view and the Taoiseach repeated that today. The Taoiseach has repudiated the Tánaiste and many people will wonder which is Tweedledum and which is Tweedledee. Is the Tánaiste part of the Government? Yesterday the Taoiseach stressed the need for clarity. The legislation was rushed through the Dáil last Christmas and another Christmas now approaches but the Taoiseach will still not say how much citizens will be charged for water. Will the Taoiseach set out precisely the Government position?

The Taoiseach contradicted his earlier remarks by saying he agrees with the Tánaiste. Was the Tánaiste correct in the figure she quoted of under €200? Yesterday the Taoiseach refused to commit to scrapping water charges. Does the Taoiseach remember long ago when he said his Government would be different from those led by Fianna Fáil? He said, "Paddy likes to know".

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What of Donegal and Dundalk?

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Deputy Adams pays charges in the North.

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Struggling families have a right to know about these charges. The Taoiseach once said "Paddy likes to know" so perhaps he can tell Paddy and Patricia whether the figures put forward by the Tánaiste are correct. If her figure is incorrect how much will be charged for water?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I heard Deputy Adams waffling on to the nation this morning. He said he supports those who do pay, those who do not pay and those who cannot pay.

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He supports everyone - he is very supportive.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As far as Europe is concerned, he said everybody should go to hell. Now we know where Deputy Adams stands - he stands everywhere and nowhere. He does not know what he wants and he will keep looking until he finds it.

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He sounds like the Taoiseach.

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Deputy Adams only wants an answer.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

When the interviewer asked Deputy Adams what he would do in the Taoiseach's chair he quickly ran an Irish mile from the question. Deputy Adams has no intention of taking a place in this seat on this side of the House. Deputy Adams stands on all platforms for everything, against everything and with no commitment.

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Stop the waffle.

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It is contagious.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I will answer the question raised by Deputy Adams. As I said to Deputy Martin, I support the principle the Tánaiste espoused yesterday to the effect that contributions for domestic water should be as fair and affordable as possible. I can confirm that the Government has not made a decision on the final level of contributions to be made nor has it decided on the changes that will be made to the structure.

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That information has been already given to the regulator - the regulator has decided. Has the Taoiseach kicked out the regulator?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

If Deputy Higgins cannot stay quiet he should leave the Chamber.

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It is ridiculous that the Taoiseach can come before the House and meander around the issue like this.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Adams will be aware that there is a strong programme of metering taking place at the moment. Under the current structure meters have been running since 1 October but bills will not be sent out until the end of January. The capping arrangement will continue for a further nine months - this means that people with meters who use less water than the cap will pay the lower amount. This is an incentive to register and have a meter installed and it allows for the possibility of beating the cap, as it were. The Government has listened to the many views and concerns voiced by people and, as Deputy Adams noted, they include those who can pay, cannot pay and will not pay. Deputy Adams is on the average industrial wage and he will pay for his holiday home in Donegal - I hope he enjoys his meal in New York tomorrow night.

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Here we go again.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Government has listened to these views and concerns and in two weeks will make a very clear decision in line with the principle espoused by the Tánaiste yesterday - domestic water contributions should be as fair and affordable as possible for everyone.

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What about the regulator?

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Sack the regulator.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I point out to Deputy Adams that the market corporation test for an entity like Irish Water is that it be sufficiently resourced to stand independently of the Government. This is why it is necessary that Irish Water is set up to borrow independently and to invest in a programme of fixing inadequate and inferior infrastructure around the country. The Environmental Protection Agency has noted the number of water treatment plants that are not up to standard and a national standard will be applied by Irish Water. A major capital programme of more than €1 billion per year has been set out. An investment of around €10 billion is required to fix something that it has not been possible to fix for some years. It will not be possible to fix Irish water infrastructure without an entity like Irish Water. Deputy Adams can make all the comments he wishes in a debate on this in two weeks when clear answers will be given.

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Incidentally, the Labour Party committed to oppose water charges but that is beside the point.

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That is not true.

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The Taoiseach said he has not made a decision on this.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Can Members please be quiet as they do not impress anyone by shouting? There are too many comedians at the moment and Deputy Adams should be allowed to make his statement.

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This Government has been sitting for three and a half years and the legislation was introduced almost a year ago but the Taoiseach still will not tell people what they will be charged. The Government is dysfunctional and the Minister who introduced water charges legislation says it has failed abjectly. He described Uisce Éireann as arrogant, uncaring and a cosseted quango with a bonus culture. Today Deputy Eoghan Murphy, a Fine Gael TD, accused the Government of manipulating and abusing the Dáil in how it ran through the legislation that established Irish Water. He said the credibility of the Government is in tatters. Meanwhile, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, has threatened the use of Revenue to chase those who cannot pay the water tax and has demanded that citizens give their personal public service, PPS, numbers to Irish water.

Did the Taoiseach or the Tánaiste authorise Irish water to contact every local authority to seek the names and addresses of council tenants? Is this what the Taoiseach meant when he said he listened to the concerns of citizens who took to the streets in every county of this State last Saturday? Yesterday he said he would act on their calls. The game is up.

The Taoiseach will not tell us how much he is going to charge. He refuses to do that. Will the Taoiseach not now, even belatedly, agree that the only way forward is to scrap water charges?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

No, I do not agree with that at all. The Government has made a number of decisions in regard to giving the regulator directions to the effect that the average metered charge would be €240 and that 30,000 litres would be allocated per household and 21,000 litres allocated per child.

The problems being raised by people here are particularly in regard to those who have difficulties in meeting an assessed charge and where there are households with more than two adults. Clearly that is an issue the Government will have to address. I have given the percentages of the houses involved where there are over three adults living in households and these need to be dealt with. Households with three or more adults comprise 13%, households with four or more adults amount to 6% and those with five adults comprise 2%. There is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Arising from confusion and the misinformation that has been around about this for some time now-----

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There is no confusion.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Would you mind, please?

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The Government is responsible for the confusion.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Government will consider all of these issues ranging from the issues concerning Irish Water-----

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Did the Taoiseach listen to the crowds last Saturday?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Will you stop shouting on the backbenches? Thank you very much.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----to the people who have aired their difficulties and expressed their concerns. Anyway, the fundamental fact is that we live in a country that has an inadequate water system.

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It is an inadequate Government.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We live in a country that has inferior treatment works. We live in a country where we are paying €1.2 billion for treated water at the moment and 40% of it leaks away into the ground.

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It is a legacy issue.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We live in a country where people pay their taxes.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry Taoiseach, we are way over time.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Taxes are running ahead of projections, as Deputy Adams is aware, in the fastest-growing economy in Europe. Anyway, we are not in a position to provide an infrastructure in future to deal with the hundreds of thousands of people throughout the country who are living with boiled water notices, the raw sewage going into rivers and the bays of the sea, and the leaks in so many schemes that are not up to standard. We have to fix that and Deputy Adams knows it.

The issues that have been raised that are of concern to people and that have caused anxiety are perfectly legitimate. In line with the principle, espoused here, of having contributions that are fair and affordable, the Government will make its decision in two weeks on the matter.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Thank you, Taoiseach.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I pointed out the-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry, you are way over time, Taoiseach.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----projects where these things are necessary.

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