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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Abolition of domestic water charges

Summary

Mary Lou McDonald argues that domestic water charges should be abolished because many families, pensioners and people on fixed or low incomes cannot afford them. The Tánaiste defends the charging policy, investment needs and a €100 conservation payment, while the exchange becomes increasingly partisan and disorderly.

On Tuesday, when the Tánaiste stated that a family of two adults and two children should pay less than €200 each year for water, Government sources immediately rubbished her figures.

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Welcome back Mary Lou.

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Despite the positive spin from the Tánaiste and Taoiseach after this morning's meeting of the economic management council, it is clear that they have not yet resolved their issues. The Tánaiste stated again that she is satisfied with progress and more work remains to be done. The only progress report people want to hear is that the Government is abolishing domestic water charges. What is required is a simple abolition of water charges, with no ifs, buts, bribes or threats. That would provide clarity.

Last night, the Tánaiste's party colleagues in the Seanad supported the proposal to hold a referendum on Irish Water. The Labour Party Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, to whom the Tánaiste referred, also stated he would not rule out a referendum. The Taoiseach has also rubbished that idea.

The people spoke last weekend when they demanded that their human right to water be protected and stated in the Constitution. They want a referendum, with no ifs, buts, delays or spin. That is clarity. Will the Government respect the will of the people by abolishing domestic water charges and by giving people the referendum they desire?

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That is a U-turn.

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A few weeks ago, if I recall our encounters correctly, Deputy McDonald and many members of her party were in favour of and indicated they would pay the water charges if they were in a household that was billed for them. Subsequently, as indicated by the Sinn Féin leader, Deputy Gerry Adams, in an RTE interview, the party obviously changed its mind.

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The Labour Party also changed its mind.

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The Labour Party changed its mind after it ran its Tesco advertisement.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Quiet, please.

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To return to first principles, we want clean, healthy water. As Deputy McDonald will be aware, at this time last year, pubs, restaurants and hotels in Dublin, which the Deputy and I have the honour to represent, were in danger of being closed down because the region had reached its maximum usage of water. These facilities play an important part in the city and country's economy. To overcome this problem we must invest in a serious capital programme over the next ten years. In the next three years, €1.7 billion will be invested in water infrastructure to get the type of water system people deserve and need, with subsequent investment set to run at approximately €1 billion per annum. Sinn Féin suggests that this be done out of general taxation, as its party leader made clear yesterday morning when he showed only the faintest understanding of the business of dealing with the economy. He then flew off to New York - I do not know in what class he travelled - to eat a dinner costing €500 per head.

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The Tánaiste should call him on her iPhone and ask him in what class he travelled.

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The figure of €500 is interesting because it is significantly higher than the water charge for a family. Deputy Adams is travelling to the United States, a country where water charges are the norm and where he receives medical attention instead of using the Irish health system. To some extent, some of the Sinn Féin Deputies are living between two continents, as it were. They live here for the purposes of ordinary life and for the purposes of high life, they jet off around the world to eat dinners in luxury hotels that cost more than what will be the average water charge, potentially for a couple of years. I am not aware of what will be the total cost of the dinner, only the indicative prices.

The main issue is that the Government has made very solid progress. I stated again in discussions a couple of weeks ago that my view is that the Irish Water project was rushed. I accept that people are very concerned and I am very anxious to set out a clear, affordable structure that produces clean water to meet our economic and social needs, delivers investment that will result in thousands of jobs in the economy, with which we could do, and provides us with the system we need.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I ask the Tánaiste to respect the Chair, please. Standing Orders provide for a time limit on contributions. I do not want to repeatedly point out this. Yesterday, the House ran seven or eight minutes over each question and speakers ignored the Chair. If Members wish to ignore the Chair, they should get another Ceann Comhairle because they will not ignore Sean Barrett. I am serious about that.

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The only thing the Tánaiste is very anxious to do is to make a pretty lame attempt to distract attention from the central issue.

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Eric J. Byrne Deputy Eric Byrne Labour Party

Is that the women in Northern Ireland?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Be quiet, please.

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To give her some constructive feedback, if she believes her comedic effort at a world tour cuts ice with people watching these proceedings, she is very much mistaken. In the real world, people do not have €200 or €100 to pay for their water. The Tánaiste is correct that I am not in that position and I do not claim to be in that position.

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She should pay the charge in that case.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Stay quiet, please.

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However, I represent countless people who are in that position. They are people on small or fixed incomes, pensioners and those struggling to pay their rent or to meet their mortgage payments.

There are people for whom it is a trauma to get money to buy a pair of shoes for their children. That is who I represent. They have told me categorically that they do not have any money to pay for domestic water. Not alone that, they have told the Government, in their tens and hundreds of thousands, that they cannot pay.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Thank you. Resume your seat, Deputy.

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The Tánaiste's job is to go back to the drawing board. Let us reopen the debate around how we fund infrastructure.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy, you did not hear me. Resume your seat, please.

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It is her job to back off from those families and slagging me or anybody else is a pathetic attempt to divert attention that is fooling absolutely nobody.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy, resume your set please. You are over your time. Thank you.

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That is the real world. If she has any sense of what the real world looks like she will abolish those charges.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

One minute please, Tánaiste. Thank you.

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I do now know whether Deputy McDonald will get an opportunity to go on the trip; that was not clear.

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Answer the question.

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All I said was that I saw that the indicative cost of the dinner was €500. In anybody's language that is a lot of money.

The situation regarding pensioners, those on low incomes or those dependent on social welfare income was a cornerstone of the budget for the first time in a series of budgets. The past six years have been a period of great difficulty for this country which the people of the country have bourne with enormous fortitude. I agree with the Deputy that it is has been difficult for them, but I am happy to say that for the first time in the budget there are cuts to the lower rates of USC, 80,000 people have been taken out of the USC system and we have a social welfare package which, in a month or so, will see the partial restoration of the Christmas bonus, something which was, rightly, much beloved of the people-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Thank you very much, Tánaiste. I ask you to adhere to the Chair.

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-----the Deputy represents.

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The people I represent cannot pay.

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We have also made provision for a water conservation payment of €100 for each household.

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That is not enough. It does not work.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Tánaiste, you are over your time. Please respect the Chair. Thank you.

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Can I just say-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Well then change the rules.

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The people to whom the Deputy referred are precisely those about whom I am concerned.

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No, you are not.

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Above all else, I want them, their children and the people whom all of us here have the honour to represent to have a chance to get a job in this country and prosper. That does not seem to feature in Sinn Féin's plans for country. That is the tragedy.

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You will be looking for a job yourself soon.

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That is pathetic.

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