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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

ECB bank debt and Trichet letter

Summary

Catherine Murphy asks whether the Government will change its strategy and seek relief from Ireland’s banking debt, alleging the publication of the Trichet letter was timed to distract from Irish Water. The Tánaiste welcomes publication, blames the former bank guarantee while defending the Government’s recovery strategy, tax measures and ongoing European negotiations; the sitting ends with procedural discussion about timekeeping.

The Minister, Deputy Noonan, spoke on "Morning Ireland" today and told us the Trichet letter was released today because the banking inquiry was up and running. That is not true. No motion has been put before the Dáil and will not be for weeks. The cynical timing is about one thing, namely, knocking Irish Water off the headlines and out of the front pages of the newspapers.

There is a relationship between both. It seems as though the ECB wants it every way. It flooded the European banks with cash, then when things went belly-up it broke its own rules and allowed this country to write IOUs for Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide. The Trichet letter clearly shows that the ECB bullied this country into a bailout on its own terms. Some €30.6 billion was pumped into two non-solvent banks, Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide. The loan losses were then converted into sovereign debt by this Government, leaving us with a €25 billion debt to pay before interest is added. This money does not need to be repaid to bondholders, banks and pension funds. Essentially, Patrick Honohan has told us this needs to be extinguished and taken out of circulation.

This year €500 million will be taken out of circulation, a sum of money which would fix a lot of leaky pipes. The same amount will have to be paid every year until 2018, then €1,000 million will be paid every year until 2023 and then €2,000 million until it is all gone. Meanwhile, the Irish people are left carrying the burden, which manifests itself in the universal social charge, reduced public services and Irish Water.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please. Thank you.

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That is the connection between the debt burden and the austerity demands.

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Some 43% of the banking crisis was shouldered by just one country, that is, Ireland, and the Government never asked for that debt to be written down.

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Will it ask Europe to write that debt off now? Did the Government have sight of the letter when the Government formed or did it have to wait to see the information until it was elevated to the Economic Management Council? Does it change the negotiation strategy?

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I am glad that the letters, I understand, are to be published formally this afternoon. I note they were in the media this morning.

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There may be more about preventing haircuts.

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The letters concern my former constituency colleague, Brian Lenihan, and are very poignant in that context. People may remember that period. It was a very snowy winter and Brian, as we are all aware, was unfortunately ill with an illness to which he would succumb. It is very poignant to see the letter released.

From a political perspective, all of this arose from a fatally flawed decision to have a blanket bank guarantee. I, along with the Labour Party, opposed it, but most of the other parties here did not. I do now know about the Independent Deputies at the time. Those who were in the House at the time supported the guarantee.

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You implemented it in government. What are you asking about? You had no policy at the time.

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The Governor of the Central Bank, Patrick Honohan, went on "Morning Ireland" the morning before and told the nation what was going to happen. I welcome the publication of the Trichet letter.

The reference to the banking inquiry was that it is in the process of being established. Deputy Lynch is the chairperson and work is ongoing which he and other members are taking extremely seriously. They will be doing important work on behalf of the State. I hope the publication of the material today will free up quite a number of the people whom the committee may wish to interview and allow them to speak more freely. In regard to the previous Government, we all remember that two senior Ministers at the time, Noel Dempsey and Dermot Ahern, were not in the loop about the extraordinary developments. The source of what happened in the Trichet letter was the disastrous blanket bank guarantee.

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Why did you continue it?

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On the other hand, in terms of where-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry, will you stay quiet please?

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You supported it.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Stay quiet, please. Thank you.

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In terms of where the country is now, yesterday the CSO published independent data on the live register which has fallen to 11%, a level which is still too high. We have just had a budget which provides for the cuts and reductions in USC to which the Deputy referred. USC has been of major concern to most people and the budget is the beginning of the reform. It has also provided for expansion of the tax bands and a reduction in the top rate of income tax to concentrate the reliefs on people earning between €30,000 and €70,000.

In addition, as Minister for Social Protection, I am pleased to say the budget has provided for a modest expansion of social welfare payments such as the Christmas bonus, an increase of €5 in child benefit from January and an increase of €9 in the living alone allowance and for people with a disability. In a recovery the people of Ireland deserve to have these modest steps taken.

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The Minister for Finance said the banking inquiry was up and running. It is not and it is not true to say it is.

The Tánaiste talks about affordability, but she is talking about affordability for 200,000 people who have been sucked dry. I have been knocking on doors and people have been saying to me that it may look like they have a nice house and a car that will get them from A to B, but that I should come in and look in their fridge and at their bills. They have no money left to pay for food or bills. Part of the reason they have no money left is the unaffordability of this debt.

The Tánaiste did not answer my questions.

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She did not understand them.

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Is the Government going to change its negotiating strategy with the ECB? Did the Tánaiste see the letter while in Cabinet but not on the Economic Management Council? The people are not fools. They know the reason they are being burdened with all of this debt; they are being burdened with something that was not of their making. What is the Government going to do about it? That is my question, not what others did to create it. What are the Tánaiste and the Government going to do about it?

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It is regrettable - I am surprised the Deputy does not express regret - that at the time all of the Independents voted for the fatal bank guarantee; that is their responsibility.

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The Government extended it.

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Deputy Finian McGrath can tell the Deputy all about it. That was the source of the problem.

On the current position, the country is in recovery. The issue faced by the family about whom the Deputy spoke, a family with a legacy of debt, is serious. That debt was probably taken on in the good times and the income of that family has probably been reduced or they may rely on social welfare payments. The CSO figures released yesterday show increased numbers are returning to work, almost all of them to full-time jobs. That is progress.

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The Tánaiste obviously did not see the figures for poverty or poverty-related issues. Did she see them?

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On what the European Union owes Ireland, I have said many times that under the previous Government, Ireland took a hit in terms of the eurozone. What direction is the country now taking? We are seeing an enormous amount of international investment in the country, an expansion of job creation and have the development of the ESM. From June 2012, we have had an indication from the Heads of Government that they recognise the special position of Ireland.

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We have moved on from what we might have wished to see happen at the time Mr. Trichet wrote his letter and will continue to negotiate the maximum position and recovery for Ireland. Last week, for instance, I was in Farmleigh to meet the head of the European Investment Bank to announce the development of the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland, which in the next period will invest significant resources in the development of the country, thereby putting people back to work and bringing prosperity back to the family the Deputy rightly says has had a very hard time. I agree fully with her that we must get them back to work and on the path to prosperity

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They are in work.

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Therefore, we must create a situation, as we did in the budget, where their USC and tax burdens will reduce. These burdens have begun to reduce for the first time since the fatally flawed bank guarantee was entered into by Fianna Fáil.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

For the information of the House, Members went over time by five minutes the time allowed for this question. They must not think I am going to keep interrupting them to tell them their time is up. In future, if Members do not want to listen to the Chair and have no respect for it, they can go ahead and take as much time as they want.

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The Tánaiste went over time every time.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I did not ask the Deputy to comment. I did not say who had gone over time. If Members do not listen, it shows total disregard and disrespect for the Chair.

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On a point of order, is it possible to have the clock-timer turned on for Leaders' Questions?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We do not have that facility. It has not been agreed to.

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Other Deputies must adhere to time limits. Perhaps it could be turned on for the leaders also.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We can refer the matter to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges; it is not one to be decided here. If Members can get the members of the committee to support the proposal, I will have no problem with it.

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Why are the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste always allowed to waffle on all the time?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We will move to the Order of Business. Please show some respect for yourselves, never mind anybody else.

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