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Dáil
‹ Order of Business

Cancellation of Order of Business

Summary

Opposition Deputies repeatedly challenge the decision to hold no Order of Business or normal questions on Wednesday and Thursday, alleging inadequate consultation and an attempt to rush water-reform legislation. The Taoiseach says the revised arrangements were notified to the Whips, will allow the Minister to announce reforms first in the Dáil, and provide for debate and a vote on Thursday.

Nothing like this has happened before.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We have changed the Order of Business on quite a number of occasions. The Opposition Whips were informed last week that there would be a motion on water, as it has been an issue of very considerable national comment for the past number of months. People would have been informed of the change in the Order of Business at about 2.10 p.m. today.

Comment on this

It was 3.15 p.m.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Adams mentioned that he received a different Order of Business from that which I read out. My understanding is that all of the office administrators for Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and the Technical Group were contacted by telephone to ensure they had received the revised Order of Business.

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The Taoiseach is supposed to consult with us.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Perhaps if Deputy Adams checks with his office he will find that to be the case. It is important that today's business goes ahead as scheduled, with the first element of Private Members' business in the name of a Sinn Féin Deputy being taken this evening. Tomorrow, we have Leaders' Questions in the morning and-----

Comment on this

There is no Order of Business.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We will take the Order of Business today for tomorrow. The Government will sign off tomorrow-----

Comment on this

What does that mean? There is no Order of Business tomorrow.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----on the issues surrounding Irish Water.

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We do that every week.

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Why is there no Order of Business tomorrow?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The important thing for Deputy Martin to remember, if he casts his mind back, is that time and again Ministers in his Government-----

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What is the problem?

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This is supposed to be the revolution.

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There is no legislation coming before us tomorrow.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

They went outside this House-----

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There was supposed to be a revolution.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----to make very expensive announcements about issues concerning the House, about which the Dáil was never told.

Comment on this

Explain why we cannot have the Order of Business tomorrow.

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The Taoiseach was going to do things differently.

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The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, will make a statement to the Dáil tomorrow, indicating the decisions of the Government in respect of Irish Water.

Comment on this

It is all over the newspapers already.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

He is informing the House, as is appropriate. If the Minister decided to do that outside the House, Deputy Martin would be the first on his feet saying it should be done in here. It will take place in here.

Comment on this

It is great that he is doing it in here, but when can we have an Order of Business?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Minister will present his Dáil statement as a motion which will continue to be debated tomorrow after his announcement in the House. We will have the second half of Private Members' business on Thursday morning, after Leaders' Questions, and then deal with the motion again, with a vote at 8 p.m.

Comment on this

There will be no Order of Business. The Government just wants to get in and out.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Last week we had the diversionary tactic of the Sinn Féin deputy leader sitting here for four or five hours, costing the taxpayer another €130,000.

Comment on this

What does the Taoiseach draw?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Delaying tactics, delaying legislation such as the discussion on the Social Welfare Bill, which has implications for the payment of the Christmas bonus-----

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The Government is conducting the business of Parliament no better; it is equally undermining debate and confidence.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Sinn Féin leader then comes into the House today to speak about placing stories and all the rest-----

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The Taoiseach is the one who talked about reform. I would add for Deputy Joe Higgins that I have listened to a few stories being placed in the past few months, many of them from his quarter, from the Sinn Féin Party and from others-----

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For example-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Stories about privatisation and the estimated cost of water.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Can we please get back to the Order of Business?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Tomorrow at 3 p.m. the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government will outline in the House, as is appropriate, the decisions taken by the Government on Irish Water.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach has left him plenty of time to have them clarified.

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They might change again.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I know that Deputies Micheál Martin, Gerry Adams, Joe Higgins, Niall Collins and everybody else on the other side of the House will want to have this issue debated and discussed.

Comment on this

Why finish at 8 p.m. on Thursday? What is the rush?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As I indicated last week, Members will have an opportunity to engage in discussion tomorrow and on Thursday on the decisions of the Government, with a vote taking place on Thursday evening at the end of the debate on the motion to be proposed by the Minister tomorrow.

Comment on this

If by then the Government has not changed it.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The motion will be discussed in the Dáil, where it should be discussed. For years other parties refused to bring such business before the Dáil. They went off outside and had their big day, with their big notices, and then failed to deliver. After the discussion, the matter is back before the House, where it should be debated.

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What is the urgency?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Minister will deliver the information tomorrow on behalf of the Government.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The question is that the proposals for dealing with Nos. 15, 16, 17-----

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The Taoiseach did not answer the question as to why we were dealing with it in this way.

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For the purposes of clarity and certainty, the Opposition is going to get the information tomorrow, but it is still not happy.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry, but I am in the middle of putting the question.

Comment on this

It will be less than the €400 a year proposed by Fianna Fáil.

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Division Carried

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business tomorrow be agreed to."

Tá 79
·
Níl 52

Do you agree with this result?

Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The third proposal to be put to the House concerns the sitting of and business to be conducted by the Dáil tomorrow. Is it agreed to?

Comment on this

No, it is not agreed to, on the basis that the motion states there will be no Order of Business tomorrow. I cannot see any logic or rationale for this. I do not believe there is any compelling reason or urgency in the context of the debate on the water issue to justify the Government, without any notice or consultation with the other parties, arbitrarily and simply deciding there will be no Order of Business tomorrow. I do not understand it and I believe it is the wrong move. It undermines confidence in Parliament and the Dáil and weakens the Government's credibility in trying to attack others who may do so. That is the key point the Taoiseach should bear in mind.

Comment on this

The key point concerns the Taoiseach's remark when he said the Opposition Whips had been informed of these changes. Telling us what to do and informing us of what the Government has decided is a long way away from political reform.

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What about what happened last Thursday?

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The Chief Whip is not consulting us.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Whips were notified. Last week, when we discussed this issue, I indicated to the House that the decision would be announced in a statement to the Dáil on Wednesday and that there would be a debate thereafter.

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We have no problem with that.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We have had discussions here before about having one Order of Business to discuss business for the entire week. This is an issue on which everybody has commented, perfectly legitimately, in the past few months. It is important that the Minister is making a statement to the Dáil, by way of a motion, on which the debate can start thereafter in the House, involving the leaders and all other Members.

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That is not the point.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

There will be Leaders' Questions tomorrow, as normal, and the Deputies can ask whatever questions they wish to ask. However, it is important that, once the Government has signed off on the announcement, the House be informed first as to what it is. The debate will then take place on it.

Comment on this

Has it been agreed to?

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We are not talking about that issue; we are talking about the Order of Business being cancelled.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As the Government has not formally signed off on any of it, the decision will be announced to the House. That did not happen on many occasions in the past.

Comment on this
Division Carried

Question put: "That the proposals for dealing with the sitting and business of the Dáil tomorrow be agreed to."

Tá 78
·
Níl 51

Do you agree with this result?

Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I now turn to the final proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with the sitting and business of the Dáil on Thursday agreed to?

Comment on this

It defies logic why the Taoiseach would attempt to organise things in this manner. This is asking us to agree that the Dáil will sit at 10 a.m. and that there should be no Question Time, no Order of Business and no Topical Issues or motions for the adjournment of the Dáil. Under protest, the Taoiseach has allowed Leaders' Questions. I have a simple question - why? The Taoiseach has not answered that question so far today.

Comment on this

That may be it, Deputy Buttimer. That is my point. This is no response to what happened here last Thursday - if that is what it is all about. I hope it is not, because it is very silly thing to do. The motion on water is important. We will not be here until 8 p.m. on Thursday and the Taoiseach and the Government Chief Whip know that. Let us call a spade a spade. The Government can play things out and do things any way it wants, but many people talk about the lifestyle issues in the Dáil and doing our business in a sensible and orderly manner. There is no need to be here until 10 p.m. tomorrow night and no need to be here until 8 p.m. on Thursday night. All the Government is going to do is bring the House into disrepute, because it will be able to count the number of people who will be contributing to the motion.

Many Deputies could have Topical Issue matters they want to discuss and questions to which they want answers in the normal way. If we want to do our business properly, we should have regular order. We always have the Order of Business, Leaders' Questions and Question Time on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. There is no compelling urgency or rationale as to why we should change that this week. I welcome the fact that the issue of water will be debated tomorrow but the debate could be finished next week. There is no logic to this. It undermines credibility in this Dáil and marginalises it, which is a very serious thing to do given all that is happening in terms of democratic politics.

Comment on this

I asked the Taoiseach to give us an explanation as to why he has ordered the business in the way he has done, but he did not give us one. He still has an opportunity to give us an explanation. This reflects how this Government does its business. It makes a mess of even the most straightforward piece of work.

Comment on this
Paul Kehoe Minister of State at the Department of Defence Fine Gael

There would be no business done in the House if you were in control.

Comment on this