The Taoiseach would probably agree that the greatest aspect of the State examinations system, at both at junior certificate and leaving certificate, is its absolute objectivity and transparency. Every child, irrespective of background, is treated and assessed equally. I would agree with Mr. Fintan O'Toole, writing yesterday in The Irish Times, that it is "as close to being incorruptible as anything gets in Ireland". Changing such a system, even at junior certificate level, merits the most careful of consideration. I understand where teachers are coming from in their concerns about this because this is a major change in assessment which no doubt will have an impact on the student-teacher relationship.

It is also fair to put on the record that over the past ten years there have been significant reforms, at both junior and leaving certificate levels. At junior certificate, there was the introduction of a new science syllabus, the introduction of project maths, group work at CSPE, etc. It is not that teachers are always against reform. They have embraced reform and reform has happened.

The problem here is that the former Minister, Deputy Quinn, caused a lot of bad feeling when he ignored the recommendations of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, NCCA. He announced the new model unilaterally without consultation and would not engage with the trade unions, and a lot of doubt and bad feeling was created. In fairness, the Minister, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, acknowledged that in her announcement by reverting back to the original proposals of the NCCA, and now there will be a final examination and State certification for 60% and 40% will go on projects and portfolios. Parents are concerned about this also. In a survey, 60% of parents stated they did not want teachers correcting their own pupils' work. There are a lot of issues with this.

The Minister has imposed a precondition and has stated that is her final position. She will not engage in talks unless the teachers accept this 60:40 divide. There is no detail in terms of external moderation. There is no substance behind it and I can understand the scepticism of teachers.

I ask the Taoiseach to remove that precondition. He should say to the Minister for Education and Skills that she should engage in talks with the unions without conditions. That could prevent the strike happening next Tuesday. We do not need a strike next Tuesday on this issue if there is an acceptance all round that there are very serious issues at play here and all stakeholders must be brought on board. That is the fundamental question I put to the Taoiseach. Will he remove that precondition to ensure meaningful talks can take place on this issue?

I regret that the teachers intend to hold a strike. The only ones who suffer from a strike in circumstances like this are the pupils and this is about them.

As Deputy Martin will be well aware, this involves provision of the most comprehensive and best-rounded education that young people can have before they enter a competitive and evolving work environment in a few short years and that is why it has been necessary to look at the concept of the junior certificate - what it stands for, how it is structured, what it means and what progress it can give to young people in secondary school. Deputy Martin's party proposed to abolish the junior certificate at one stage.

For over 30 years, there has been agreement on the need to reform the first three years of second level education. That was first proposed by the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment in 1999. Undoubtedly, the current junior certificate has its strengths but it cannot allow for assessment of skills, such as teamwork, communications or creativity, which are all important in today's world. These are aspects of a modern society and they are crucial skills that young people need to have. I am sure everybody here agrees that we want the best for our young people.

The new junior certificate will allow students to study short courses in a range of areas that are relevant to their future. That is an issue about devolution of responsibility to schools which has generally been accepted. Some of these short courses will include matters such as Chinese language and culture and coding, which skills and knowledge will be of increasing importance in the future. That is obviously something being requested by schools themselves.

It is about independent assessment.

That is not the question.

They will be able to develop their own short courses. Priority junior certificate changes in areas such as creativity, teamwork and problem solving cannot be assessed by written examination. The plan is for a reduction, from 100% to 40%, in the marks to be awarded for portfolio work, oral skills, project work and ways of assessing that are much broader than written examinations. Deputy Martin will be well aware that in Scotland, Finland, Australia and New Zealand, all countries with high performing school systems, state examinations at the end of the junior cycle have been either abolished completely or replaced with a combination of examinations and course work assessed within the school.

Since her appointment, the Minister, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, has been clear that she has been willing to listen to all of the voices in education and to compromise where she felt this was necessary. She involved herself in detailed discussions and Dr. Travers, the former president of St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra, was appointed as a chairman. The Minister offered a compromise here, that 60% of the marks in the junior cycle should be allocated on the basis of an examination at the end of the third year - down from 100% - which will continue to be set and marked by the State Examinations Commission for all subjects and that 40% of the marks should be allocated for school-based work, such as portfolios and projects, which thousands of students do at third level colleges every day of the week.

We know all that. Assessment is the issue. The Taoiseach is out of touch again.

That work will be marked by the class teacher, who is in a much better position to provide detailed feedback to a student as he or she does in woodwork or metalwork in schools all over the country today-----

The Taoiseach would want to go back to school.

-----to help them learn from the assessment of work. The NCCA will set out the task that should be completed and give guidance to teachers on marking that. This is feasible to achieve.

From visiting schools all over the country, I am aware that teachers work closely on project work and assessment of that with students every day. There is nothing different here, with 60% marked by the State Examinations Commission and 40% for project work and continued assessment. It is important for young people whose teachers know them best.

The Minister has gone a long way in the interests of the pupil and reform. I would ask that we not have a strike on this because the only ones who will suffer are the students.

The bottom line here is the assessment model. No one has any issue with reform. There has been reform for the past ten years with curriculum changes on an ongoing basis.

By the way, curriculum change needs to be backed up with detail, substance and comprehensive resourcing. None of that is on the table. There is no detail on the 40% in terms of assessment of portfolios and projects. At leaving certificate level, for example, in subjects such as history, 20% can be allocated to project work or to a portfolio, but that is assessed externally.

There should be proper engagement.

From day one the Government attempted to ram this through without consultation or any engagement.

It was bulldozed.

That was the problem. I accept the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, has moved away from that approach in a certain direction, but there should be no preconditions in terms of meaningful negotiations and working through these particular issues. It is that sort of dictatorial, arrogant approach, which has been the hallmark of the Government, that leads to such conflict situations and strikes where we do not need them. Teachers are well aware of what is being proposed, but they are not aware of any detail at all on the 40%. The countries the Taoiseach mentioned have externally moderated systems, although I accept there is not external assessment in some countries. External moderation is comprehensive and well resourced and significant preparatory training was provided. There has been a complete absence of any of that in regard to this issue.

Deputy McConalogue, as an Opposition spokesman, has been very constructive on the issue for some time, but he has identified many of the weaknesses in the past two years in terms of how the Government has approached the matter. There is no let up now, in terms of the manner in which the Taoiseach answered my question. I appeal to the Taoiseach to go back to the drawing board with the Minister for Education and Skills and engage in a respectful way on the issue with the trade unions and members in order that we can have all the stakeholders on board to ensure meaningful reform of the learning and teaching process.

Deputy Martin is wrong to say preconditions were set down. On her appointment as Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan said she was willing to listen, engage and become involved with all concerned. She appointed Dr. Travers, the former president of St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra, as chairman of the talks process, but the terms of reference were all proposed by the unions, not by the Minister, and the Minister accepted them. It is not true to say preconditions were set down or that the change was bulldozed through.

There cannot be any talks unless the 60:40 approach is accepted by teachers.

The terms of reference were proposed by the unions, and they were accepted by the Minister. She appointed Dr. Travers to oversee the process. The previous proposal was that teachers would be responsible for marking 100% of a student's work throughout the junior certificate. That has now changed and 60% will be marked by the State Examinations Commission. Deputy Martin is aware that teachers know their students best of all from an educational point of view.

I do not know why the Taoiseach is pointing that out.

Deputy Martin should allow me to finish. The NCCA will set out in detail the work that should be completed by each student and guidance will be provided to teachers on the marking. If the Deputy were to visit a school at the moment-----

I have.

A total of 89% of teachers say the Taoiseach is wrong. That is the reality.

Only 11% of teachers say he is right.

-----where students are doing project work, for example, making a coffee table, press or table-----

Will Members please stay quiet?

The discussions that take place between the students and the teacher ensure that the teacher knows the range and capacity of each student and he or she can give guidance based on what the NCCA will set out as to how best the work should be completed. Teachers know the situation best and it is for that kind of project work that 40% of the marks are awarded. That is eminently achievable by teachers. Deputy Martin was wrong to say there were preconditions-----

The Taoiseach should stop.

-----he was wrong when he said the Minister bulldozed the change through-----

Preconditions were set for talks.

The Taoiseach is not talking to children now.

-----and he was wrong in not understanding that the propositions were put forward by the unions and accepted by the Minister.

It was said there could be no talks unless teachers accepted the 60:40 approach.

Deputy Martin never listens. Following those discussions, the system was changed from 100% of marking required by teachers to 60% by the State Examinations Board and 40% by teachers-----

The Taoiseach brought in the 100% system.

-----for projects assessed by teachers who know their students best.