Secondary school teachers throughout the State have today embarked on their second day of strike action on the issue of junior cycle reform with the prospect of a third day of industrial action looming large. I am sure the Tánaiste will agree that this causes huge disruption for families, students and teachers. She will also appreciate that the mock leaving and junior certificate examinations are not far away and that this will, undoubtedly, add pressure to students and teachers. The current situation is testament to the Government's failure to engage constructively and positively with teachers on the issue of junior cycle reform. There is consensus that reform needs to happen and that a model of continuous assessment needs to be adopted, but the disagreement revolves around the Government's insistence that teachers mark and grade their own students. I cannot understand the Government parties' insistence on this when teachers who are the professionals and experts in the sector have told them clearly about the difficulties to which this will give rise. If they persist, teachers say the current situation risks damaging their relationship with their students, but, perhaps more importantly, it also runs the serious risk of damaging the credibility of the State examinations and qualifications. Why is the Government being so unreasonable? Why has it not sorted out this matter? Why will it not heed the concerns and insights of the teaching profession?

For a long period I was a member of the TUI because I taught for a lengthy number of years as a senior lecturer in Dublin Institute of Technology. As somebody who set and marked my own examinations-----

Look where it got the Tánaiste.

-----and also took part in administering the examination structures of a number of the professional accounting bodies, notwithstanding the Deputy's welcome commitment to reform, Deputy Mary Lou McDonald is mistaken on this issue.

She is not.

As a country, if we are to progress and get all of the people who lost their jobs back to work-----

The Government did this two weeks ago in the primary sector. The sector was assessed independently. The Tánaiste is codding the people.

-----one of the essential ingredients will be to give children the best education we can provide. That means implementing critical reforms which bring into the classroom at second level collaboration and work both by the individual and class groups that will allow children to be creative, participants and leaders in their own learning process.

The Tánaiste will have them marking their own examinations next.

The performance of children has been poorer under the Government. The Tánaiste should read today's newspapers.

The Deputy was previously a principal. Book and rote learning had an essential part to play in education, but it is not the only way for people to get an education and develop educationally. When Deputy Ruairí Quinn became Minister for Education and Skills, he set out to improve literacy and numeracy in primary schools.

We saw what the Tánaiste did to him.

He introduced reform which was not popular with everybody.

The primary sector is assessed independently by outsiders. The Tánaiste is missing the point.

She got rid of the Minister who had done all of the good work.

Leaders' Questions are between party leaders and the Tánaiste.

It was assessed in the recent publication of the results of that reform. Anybody who has the opportunity, as I do all the time, to go into wonderful new and older schools that have been refurbished by the Government throughout the country-----

Thanks to Brian Lenihan.

The last time the Government parties went among the people, it did not work out so well.

-----will see at primary level the excitement in learning and developing and learning to reason and critique, not simply learn for an examination.

Get real. What about ordinary English?

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald's vision for education would lead to poorer outcomes. The country needs educational reform.

We all support reform.

The teacher unions need to engage in discussions. The Minister has said it will be a two part system - 60% will be addressed through the traditional examination which Sinn Féin wants to see as the cornerstone of the system, while 40% will take into account what we have all learned will stand to children when they come out of primary and secondary school and enter the wider world. The teacher unions need to pause and think again about what is best for our precious children.

I am interested to hear the Tánaiste's exposition to teachers and me, presumably as a parent, on what is best for our precious children.

The National Parents Council is in favour of this reform.

The council did not consult parents.

The Tánaiste is making a false argument and, perhaps unsurprisingly, addressing the wrong issue. There is no dissent on the need for reform, continuous assessment and creativity, participation and so on among all children at primary, second and third level. The issue concerns marking, grading and accreditation. Teachers are saying - many parents and students agree with them - that in grading junior cycle achievement we have to be sure the system is objective, standardised, fair and credible.

That is the great beauty of external assessment. The teachers argued that point. I trust teachers absolutely and I trust their judgment on this matter. For all the flaws it has and all the arguments people have with it, the leaving certificate has always been justifiably recognised for one sterling quality, which is its objectivity. People, teachers, students and parents value that. We need the reform. Why is the Government holding it up by a stubborn refusal to listen to teachers who say that they are for all of that but insist that it is externally graded and accredited?

The Tánaiste should not try to make a comparison between a third-level institution where students come from every corner of the country and beyond to be taught and a school in a rural area or even an urban area where teachers live and where relationships are very strong. It is a very different dynamic. The teachers make a fair call for external grading and assessment to ensure the credibility of the junior cycle, learning and learning achievements. Why can the Government not listen to that and do the reasonable thing?

I have had the privilege of visiting one to two schools per week - not just in my current job but since I became a Deputy - because one of my abiding interests is education. I go into very well-off schools - fee-paying schools. Deputy McDonald would be familiar with them. What I find is that the students have a collaborative learning experience. Often when I go into a poorer community, I find that many children drop out of secondary school around the age of 15 and 16. Through the school completion programme, we are keeping a huge number of children in school until their leaving certificate but the reason many children drop out is because the current curriculum does not meet their needs or interests. The junior certificate reform is part of a vital reform to make the school experience positive for many children and help them to complete it successfully.

All around the world, teachers at first, second and third level set, mark and assess their own pupils. It is accepted as being key in all of the best-performing countries in the world in terms of education. In respect of our children studying history, English or mathematics, Deputy McDonald wants everything to depend on a book-led examination rather than collaborative learning. I think she is wrong. I hope that teachers return to the negotiations. I noticed that Sinn Féin's spokesperson on education has spoken very well about being in favour of reform. Deputy McDonald is like St. Augustine, "Lord, make me reform but not just yet."