Another five people, including two minors and a pensioner, have been arrested in west Tallaght this morning. A further four people, again including a child, were arrested yesterday. Seventeen arrests have been made to date. It is reported that up to 33 people will be detained in the coming days. The scale of Garda resources deployed for these arrests stands in marked contrast to the lack of Garda response in many communities when families report serious crime. The number of gardaí used to arrest an elected Member of this House and members of South Dublin County Council stands in stark contrast to the lack of community gardaí on the ground in communities inflicted in some instances with drug related and gangland crime.

Hear, hear.

There is growing concern that these arrests are politically motivated and that somebody somewhere has a desire to criminalise the community in Jobstown and the entire anti-water charges movement. I would like to make it clear that I do not believe it is acceptable in a democracy to protest at politicians' homes. Equally, it is not acceptable to detain politicians, political staff or council workers as they go about their business. I do not believe it is appropriate to aggressively target the Office of the President. I believe protests should be peaceful and dignified. Indeed, that is what they have been for the most part. I share the concern of a growing number of people that what gardaí are doing is of a political nature. Does the Tánaiste share my concern that there is a campaign to criminalise the people of Jobstown and the hundreds of thousands of people who are campaigning against water charges? Does she share the view that the level of Garda resources being deployed is over the top and is in stark contrast to the lack of response to victims of crime in west Tallaght and elsewhere? Does she stand over the manner in which gardaí are conducting these arrests and treating the people of Jobstown?

First, in our democratic system it is a matter for An Garda Síochána to investigate crime. Second, we have an independent Judiciary.

It is full of Labour Party members.

Gardaí have to be free to investigate crime without political interference of any kind. That is why it is exclusively a matter for An Garda Síochána to decide, in accordance with the law, who is to be arrested and detained as part of any investigation. Equally, it is a matter for the Director of Public Prosecutions to decide whether people are charged and matters are consequently put before the courts. People who have any complaints about the manner in which they have been dealt with by An Garda Síochána can make those complaints to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. It is important for Members of the House to remember that this country is governed by the rule of law. We should let the law take its course without interference or hindrance from anybody. It would clearly be wrong of me to say anything that would interfere in any way with any investigation.

I am not inviting the Tánaiste to interfere in any investigative process. I would not do so. I acknowledge the independence of the Garda and indeed the independence of the Judiciary, both of which are essential pillars of our functioning democratic system. That is why it is essential for the independence of those organisations and institutions to be reasserted in circumstances of public concern or public doubt. What has happened here in a drip-drip way is that people, including pensioners and children, as I have mentioned, have been arrested right across west Tallaght.

Well done.

We are talking about children of 14 and 16 years of age.

Shame.

I think the Tánaiste will agree that the right to peaceful protest and demonstration is a core part of the democratic system, just as is the independence of the organisations she has identified. If she is not concerned about the public perception of this turn of events, she should be because there is growing public concern that the State, through An Garda Síochána, is actively penalising and targeting people who have protested against Government policy.

Where is the proof of that?

That is a most dangerous perception to grow.

The Deputy's party is intimidating the gardaí in the investigation.

It has no faith in the Garda.

Order, please. Deputy McDonald should ask a question

Thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

The Deputy should not make such an accusation against the Garda.

While that might draw the buzz of the well-heeled benches of the Dáil-----

The Deputy does not know what she is talking about.

-----I assure Deputies that if they go to Jobstown and other communities throughout the State - I refer particularly to working-class communities - they will find that this perception is growing.

Fuelled by Sinn Féin.

I believe that the Tánaiste, like all politicians and elected representatives, has a duty to put that concern to rest.

The Deputy is undermining the Garda.

Does she share my concerns? Does she recognise that the level of Garda resources deployed has been over the top, frankly?

It is unprecedented.

This has happened at a time when Garda resources are stretched.

This Government closed rural Garda stations.

Is the Tánaiste concerned that a Member of this House was arrested?

Is the Deputy concerned that he was arrested?

Is she concerned about the manner of that arrest and the melodrama around it? Above all, does the Tánaiste not share the concern that a growing number of people regard this as politically motivated policing?

That is a disgrace.

I uphold the Constitution. Like any member of the Government, I am required to do so. I respect the independence of the Judiciary, the independence of the Garda and the availability of an independent complaints system. It is important for anyone who speaks on these matters in this House not to reflect in any negative way on the independence of these institutional and constitutional arrangements, which are the cornerstone of our democracy. I visit communities throughout the State frequently. I have found that protestors appear to favour protesting against ceremonies, events and institutions to do with education. The people who were receiving their awards and degrees in Jobstown were celebrating an important day in their lives and those of their communities.

Many of them boycotted it because the Tánaiste was coming.

I would like to refer briefly to the events at Fingal County Council the other evening. Like other Members of this House, I served as a member of that county council for a period. I regret what happened to the Fianna Fáil Mayor of Fingal County Council, Councillor Mags Murray, whom I have known over a long time. When she wanted to leave the council meeting to visit her daughter who was ill in hospital, she was remonstrated with in a very cruel and, in my view, utterly misguided way.

Shame.

As part of a protest, certain people prevented her from getting to her car in order that she could visit her daughter in hospital.

It was disgraceful.

All I will say is that they are not representative of people who have political issues and opposition to the whole issue of water charges.

It was shocking

They are not representative of how politics has generally been conducted in this State. The people in Fingal the other evening held a mother back from going to see her sick daughter in hospital for an additional hour or two.

Was Deputy Paul Murphy there?

I suspect their actions had nothing to do with water-----

Did he attend it?

-----or with the vast majority of people who have concerns and who have protested-----

I asked the Tánaiste about Jobstown.

-----absolutely peacefully and in an orderly way.

She has not said a single word about the people who were arrested.

The Deputy would know about being arrested.

I know all about your harassment.

Deputies, the Tánaiste to conclude.

All I can say is that, when communities-----

-----are going about the lawful and peaceful-----

Like Greece, the Government will bring in the Army next.

-----development of the community and where people are graduating with honours from colleges, which is a mark of great honour and credit to the communities, or where schools are working with children-----

Stop it.

-----the protestors who turn up at those events are, as Deputy McDonald suggested, not typical of the people who engage in peaceful protest on this issue. I suggest that they think again. I do not understand why they prevented a mother going to see her sick daughter after the finish of a council meeting.

What about the arrests in Jobstown?

I call Deputy Coppinger for the Technical Group.

The question was not even answered.

Deputy Coppinger has the floor.

For four days in a row, there have been unprecedented Garda operations in west Tallaght. Dawn raids have taken place on 17 homes without any of the appointments made with the Anglo Irish Bank three who brought this country to financial ruin.

Determined.

Deputy Finian McGrath is an expert.

Ordinary men, women and, in legal terms, children have been arrested in front of their families and neighbours, including three elected representatives of the Anti-Austerity Alliance. How does it sit with the Tánaiste that complaints she made against people who protested her visit to Jobstown in November have resulted in these outrageous raids by entire squads of gardaí, trawling for evidence on incidents that were blown out of all proportion by her and some of her friends in sections of the media?

That is outrageous.

Is the Tánaiste comfortable that 14, 15, 16 and 17 year olds have been arrested? As we speak, a 15 year old is missing a day of school.

It is shameless.

The Tánaiste claims she is concerned about education, but she has said nothing about the school that child is missing-----

He was not at school while he was protesting.

-----because he or she might have taken part in a protest against the Tánaiste.

Deputy Durkan never protests.

Was he missing from school when he was protesting?

The talk in Jobstown is that a message will be sent out soon for the first born in every family to be rounded up to please the Tánaiste. Is her wounded political vanity so precious that she needs this vindictive attempt to criminalise an entire working class community in this way? Hundreds of decent people in Jobstown and Tallaght who took part in a protest are in genuine fear that they will be arrested. Who will mind their children and so on?

The Tánaiste stated that she was independent and she mentioned An Cosán. Let us be honest. She was not wanted by the people getting their degrees at An Cosán. That was made perfectly clear.

That is outrageous.

Shame on you.

Unbelievable.

Order, please. A question, Deputy.

Why does the Tánaiste feel that she is so special? There are vulnerable women with barring orders who cannot get them enforced by gardaí, yet an entire unit in Tallaght has been doing nothing else for the past three months except investigating hours of video footage on the Tánaiste's behalf.

Hear, hear.

For decades, Ministers and taoisigh have gone around this country and encountered hundreds of protests, had their cars impeded-----

Mr. Jack Lynch.

-----and had verbal abuse shouted at them. I will cite two examples.

I am sorry, but the Deputy is over time.

Well over time and out of line.

In 2002, the then Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern, visited Waterford. He claimed that his car was kicked and choice language was thrown at him. He complained in the Chamber. In 1989, Mr. Charles Haughey-----

It is a history lesson.

-----had his car blocked by a sit-down protest of students-----

The Deputy was not around then.

-----at UCD. For all their sins, neither went and called out the dogs and called on a repressive police response for the behaviour they faced.

Who is the dog?

Who are the dogs?

It would seem that it takes a special-----

Quiet, please.

Have a bit of respect.

Disgraceful.

Deputy Coppinger should withdraw that remark.

It would seem that it takes-----

Will Deputy Coppinger please ask-----

She called gardaí "dogs".

Disgraceful.

It is an outrageous thing to call them.

Be quiet.

Order, please. Could I ask Deputy Coppinger, please-----

It would seem that it takes a very special deputy Prime Minister for the Labour Party-----

Withdraw that remark.

-----to get this-----

Shut up. Keep quiet.

Is it not enough for Labour Members to be traitors to the working class? Do not try to interrupt the speaker.

Be quiet.

I want to allow Deputy Coppinger to conclude.

I will finish as soon as I get a chance.

The Deputy has two minutes for a question, the Tánaiste has three minutes for a reply, then the Deputy has one minute for a supplementary question and the Tánaiste has one minute for a further reply.

This is my question.

Will the Deputy please ask the question? We are over time.

What about Fr. Peter McVerry?

Why has it taken a very special deputy Prime Minister for the Labour Party to call for such a repressive police response? Larkin and Connolly will be turning in their graves.

It is your carry on that has them turning in their graves. You should be ashamed.

There are two reasons for this happening. First, working class people have deigned to protest against austerity Ministers who visit their communities.

Out of order.

The Tánaiste would like them to get back in their boxes.

I thank the Deputy.

The second reason is that she wants to take on-----

Deputy, please.

-----the largest protest movement taking place in this country, namely, the anti-water charges movement-----

This is a speech.

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----

-----at a particular time when bills are being prepared for delivery to 2 million homes. Will the Tánaiste call on the Garda-----

No, we have had the Deputy's question.

-----to stop making these arrests?

Will you sit down?

I will have order, please.

Show some respect.

You show some respect. You should-----

Deputy Coppinger called gardaí "dogs".

I am calling the Tánaiste.

First of all-----

Deputy Higgins-----

Does Deputy Spring know anything about the English language or figures of speech? Is it not enough for Labour to be betraying the working class?

Will the Deputy settle down, please? I have called the Tánaiste.

Will somebody call the guards quick?

I want to ask the Deputy-----

The Tánaiste is supposed to answer questions.

-----in the interests of the many gardaí who serve this country and its people with distinction, heroism and bravery-----

That is true.

-----whether when she made a reference to dogs she was actually including in that our Garda Síochána.

Male and female.

I think it is important, notwithstanding that the Deputy is given to fairly colourful rhetoric when she speaks here, that she actually address this issue. Gardaí do not deserve to be spoken of in those terms.

Hear, hear.

The Deputy should be ashamed of herself.

Answer the question.

At many of the protests, I have heard language used to both female and male members of An Garda Síochána that I certainly felt was not appropriate.

For once the Tánaiste is right.

I have to say that, in all of my years in politics with the Deputy sitting on Deputy Coppinger's right, I have never heard him resorting to that kind of language. In all fairness to him-----

Answer the question.

What language?

She called gardaí "dogs".

-----we have had many political disputes, but I have never heard Deputy Higgins resort to that kind of language. I understand that there is a lot of hot temper flying around the Chamber at the moment.

Just answer the question.

In fairness to Deputy Higgins, I just wanted to acknowledge that. We have had many very detailed discussions and disputes on political matters.

Answer the question on why 15 and 16 year olds have been arrested.

Order, please.

Let me reiterate that it is a cornerstone of our Constitution and democracy, which I will defend, that we have an independent Garda, an independent Judiciary and an independent complaints procedure. That may not be good enough for Deputy Coppinger, but the Constitution of this Republic and an independent Garda operation are paramount for me and anybody who respects the former.

Hear, hear.

Learning that would go well over there.

Let me say this as well. It would be absolutely inappropriate for me, any other serving Minister or any politician to comment in any detail on a Garda matter that is under way.

The Tánaiste made the complaint.

Deputy Coppinger has one minute.

She is not above the law.

Could we please have order?

Are the Deputies proud of themselves?

The Tánaiste made a pathetic attempt relating to my using a figure of speech to avoid answering any of the questions.

Yes.

Despite her claims about the Garda being independent, is the Tánaiste happy with approximately 100 gardaí calling to people's homes, accounting for 300 man hours this week alone, 280 hours of video footage and the incident unit in Tallaght and she has no control over it? Is she happy that teenagers are missing school? Is she happy that mothers are afraid that they will be rounded up any morning? Is this going to continue in batches of four and five for the next ten days until she reaches the magical figure of 40 or 50 that has been suggested in the media?

I have given the Tánaiste major historical examples of taoisigh, of a higher standing even than herself, who had their cars impeded and blocked. This is nothing new. Is it different when it is students or working class people? That seems to be what the Tánaiste is saying.

Yes. Poor people do not matter.

For the Tánaiste's information, there is one Member of this House who was very badly manhandled on that protest, Deputy Paul Murphy. Would the Tánaiste express her sympathy with him? That is shown on some of the video footage as well.

On Tuesday, the Tánaiste grievously betrayed women suffering the trauma of fatal foetal abnormality by her stance.

I am sorry but the Deputy is on a different issue.

What about the Constitution?

Today, she brazenly comes in here and continues to stand over the hounding of an entire working class community. These actions will definitely backfire. People will boycott the water charges, which is essentially what this is about. The Tánaiste is trying to demonise protestors at a key time in the battle against water charges, but this will rebound. I have no doubt that the Tánaiste will be gone in the next election, and probably the entire Labour Party with her, and so too will the water charges.

I call on the Tánaiste to conclude.

You guys would never break the law.

I have devoted my time to helping people in communities across the country to get back to work. I will defend that. When we came into office - Deputy Coppinger was not here at that time but she may know - unemployment rates had soared to 15% and 330,000 people had lost their jobs.

What has that got to do with water charges?

The country was in a difficult position because of the collapse of the banks. This Government and this House has sought to restore to people-----

On a point of order, the Tánaiste is not answering the question she was asked.

That is not a point of order.

-----their opportunity to get work or start a business. I am delighted to say that is being increasingly successful.

The Tánaiste should speak about the young people in custody today.

In relation to the actions of the Garda Síochána concerning any investigation, Deputy Coppinger said she feared that Deputy Paul Murphy had been, to quote her, "manhandled" by gardaí. If Deputy Paul Murphy has complaints to make, he is perfectly entitled to make a complaint in that respect to An Garda Síochána and to the Garda Ombudsman Commission. That is his option, as it is with any other citizen, if he feels that, as Deputy Coppinger suggests, he was manhandled by gardaí.

What about the children in custody?

All I will say about the issue is that, because the matter is under investigation-----

It is a 16 year old.

Please.

-----I am not at liberty to make any comments in relation to the investigation. By the way, Deputy Coppinger suggested that I have made complaints to An Garda Síochána. I do not know if Deputy Paul Murphy has made complaints to An Garda Síochána, but I certainly have not.

Thank you, Tánaiste. That concludes Leaders' Questions. We now go on to the next business.