On a point of order-----

I call the Government Chief Whip.

Am I right in saying that Deputy Ruth Coppinger called members of An Garda Síochána "dogs"? If she did, I, as a member of the Fine Gael Party and a Member of this House, would like her to withdraw that remark. It is beneath her to call members of An Garda Síochána "dogs".

To clarify, did Deputy Coppinger-----

I never referred to gardaí as "dogs". I was using a figure of speech.

Keep quiet, please.

If the dawn chorus over there could stay quiet for a minute, I was using a figure of speech - not referring to gardaí.

You are withdrawing that.

Withdraw it. Apologise.

I am sorry Minister, but I have the floor now.

The Deputy should not be allowed to leave this House without withdrawing that scurrilous remark.

The Minister should resume his seat. Can we have order, please?

Fight fire with fire.

In case there is any misunderstanding, Deputy Coppinger, you did not call gardaí "dogs".

She did.

Please.

I am sorry, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, but the expression I used was "Call off the dogs of war on people in Jobstown". It was nothing to do with gardaí.

Who are the dogs?

All right. I accept that. I am calling the Tánaiste.

I want no more of this.

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----

I am very clear about it. I am calling the Tánaiste.

On a point of order-----

This is the second point of order now, Minister, you know. You have already made a point of order.

No. Members of my family are members of An Garda Síochána, as are family members of many other Members of this House.

Indeed. Absolutely.

Is Deputy Coppinger referring to my family members, who are members of An Garda Síochána, as "dogs"?

I think that has been clarified.

She is. She should be asked to apologise and withdraw the remark.

I think she has clarified the matter.

She did not withdraw the remark.

I call the Tánaiste for a final remark on this.

In fairness to Deputy Higgins, I do not associate that kind of language ever with him, in many long and detailed discussions and political arguments. I want to be clear. In terms of the honour due to gardaí, many of whom have lost their lives or suffered serious injury in defending this State, it would be wise for Deputy Coppinger to remove and resile from the figure of speech that she acknowledges she used of "calling off the dogs". Our gardaí are not to be referred to in those terms.

As regards what happened at Fingal County Council, where Deputy Coppinger and I had the privilege to serve as councillors, it is not right that the mayor of Fingal was obstructed by demonstrators from seeing her daughter in hospital. Deputy Coppinger should disassociate herself from those people.

I call the Tánaiste on the Order of Business, please.

She should withdraw the remark.

I am having no more of this.

On a point of order-----

This is the last speaker on this. I will have something to say on it.

Two members of the Government stood up and, in the most pathetic way, have tried to divert attention from the fact that children are in custody in Tallaght today, as a result of the Tánaiste-----

The Deputy should resume his seat.

In the English language we use figures of speech for impact and effect, and to drive home a point. My colleague, Deputy Ruth Coppinger, did not refer to men and women who are members of the Garda as "dogs", as is being alleged.

Yes, she did.

She has clarified that she was using a figure of speech. "The dogs of war" is a very well-known figure of speech. Read your Shakespeare, Tánaiste, and there you will find it.

"Call off the dogs" is what she said. My brother's son is a guard. Is he a dog?

I want to make a comment, please. I could certainly talk about my relations and family connections with the Garda, like other Members.

On a point of order-----

Excuse me, Deputy. In conclusion, I am accepting Deputy Coppinger's disclaimer. The only other way to deal with it is by way of a substantive motion. We will now go on to the Tánaiste for the Order of Business. We have wasted enough time.

On a point of order-----

What is the point of order?

There is a long-standing tradition of not referring in a derogatory fashion to people outside the House or in a way whereby they could be identified.

Yes.

I ask that the reference made be withdrawn now, unequivocally.

I have already ruled on that.

Has it been done?

I have ruled on that matter.

Has it been done, though?

Yes, the Deputy has disclaimed that.

Has the Deputy unequivocally withdrawn the insult?

Deputy Durkan can table a substantive motion. The Deputy disclaimed the remark attributed to her.

There is no need for a substantive motion at all. The Deputy must withdraw the insult.

That is done. I call the Tánaiste.

Deputy Durkan did a bit of jail time in the 1960s in the aftermath of a protest by farmers.

Deputy Higgins has brought matters to a new low.

Yes, a new low.

Deputy Durkan should tell us-----

We must move on.