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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Hospital trolley waits and elective-care delays

Summary

Gerry Adams highlighted record trolley numbers, long elective-care waiting lists and conditions at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda, linking the crisis to austerity. The Taoiseach cited current figures and local infections, defended the Government’s response and said the Health Minister had provided a detailed answer on implementing HIQA recommendations.

Once again, hundreds of our citizens are languishing on hospital trolleys. There were 551 people on trolleys this morning, some 32 of these in Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda, which consistently has among the highest number of patients on trolleys. In 2011, when the Taoiseach's Government took office, there were 10,000 patients waiting longer than six months for elective care.

Last month there were 24,369. My constituency, and I am sure it is the same for all Deputies, is inundated with people who are waiting for unacceptable periods for procedures. One man from Drogheda, Peter McDonnell, has been waiting for two years for surgery. Lily McDonnell is waiting for an urgent surgical appointment for the removal of a growth on her face. Apart from the 24,369 who cannot get surgical appointments within a reasonable time, there are those citizens who cannot be discharged because the Taoiseach's Government will not provide the level of care in the home that they deserve. The health Minister, Deputy Leo Varadkar, has said the Government's response has not been enough. The Minister is a master of understatement - the Taoiseach has taught him well - but the issues remain; we have patients on trolleys, citizens without home care packages and elective surgeries cancelled. Meanwhile, the Government paid €7.5 billion in debt interest, including private banking debt. Will the Taoiseach accept that there is a clear link between the hospital crisis and the pursuit of such wasteful and unjust austerity policies by Fine Gael and Labour?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As I have often said to the Deputy before, if money could have sorted this out, it would have been done ages ago. He mentioned the trolley count. The trolley count numbers for today, 17 February, at 8 a.m. show 464 patients waiting on trolleys nationally, with 222 of those waiting for longer than nine hours. Yesterday's figure was 445 on trolleys at 8 a.m., with 248 waiting over nine hours. Yesterday's evening figure showed that the number of patients waiting had reduced to 235 by 8 p.m. and 103 of those were waiting over nine hours. Yesterday morning in Drogheda there were 44. By 2 p.m. that had reduced to 22 and by 8 p.m. it had reduced to 18. The 8 a.m. figure for this morning shows 22 people on trolleys, half yesterday's figure. The Minister for Health has pointed out quite clearly that the trolley waits are unacceptable and he acknowledges the difficulties the overcrowding in emergency departments causes for patients-----

Comment on this

What is he doing about it?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----their families and the staff who do their utmost to provide safe and quality care in very challenging circumstances.

The Deputy mentioned the hospital in his own constituency. Drogheda has had particular difficulties over the past weekend, up to and including yesterday, as I have pointed out. The hospital has treated three patients who tested positive for influenza and there has been a sporadic outbreak of norovirus, which has been contained and isolated and has not had an impact on bed capacity. I am informed that the hospital is confident there is no need to activate any ambulance diversion at this time. At the Labour Relations Commission last week, 22 agency nurse conversions, 66 nursing posts and an additional health care assistant post were agreed for Drogheda hospital, with industrial action suspended until October, pending the putting in place of these staff. I am quite sure that they, along with existing staff, will do their utmost to see that this is regulated in the best way possible.

The Deputy is also aware that the Minister for Health appointed and convened the emergency department task force last December, to provide focus and momentum in dealing with the challenges presented by the current trolley waits. At its meeting on 2 February, that task force considered a draft action plan to specifically address emergency department issues with a view to reducing trolley waits in 2015. The Minister is determined that the action plan be completed as soon as possible, that the views of the task force are taken into account and are implemented without delay. Other measures are being taken. The HSE is accessing all suitable non-acute accommodation to the maximum extent possible to allow those who have been clinically discharged to leave acute hospitals. The allocation of €25 million made a big impact here in terms of the delayed discharges in the national service plan. That was utilised, as was planned, to provide additional funding for 50 transitional care beds in the greater Dublin area, 65 extra beds in Mount Carmel to come on stream on a phased basis from April, and a range of additional home care packages. It is never easy, believe me, but it is a case of a Minister making the most effective decisions possible to regulate it in such a way that those who need care and attention get the very best, delivered by front-line staff, who are very challenged in some cases.

Comment on this

I asked the Taoiseach whether he would agree that there is a connection between his brutal austerity policies and the crisis in our health services. He did not answer that. He hit me with a blizzard of statistics, almost like a commentator at a horse race. There is a connection. The Taoiseach knows that and he will not acknowledge it. That is the price people are paying for his policies. Could I have the Taoiseach's attention? I thank the Minister. Last month I raised with him twice a letter from HIQA, which said that if recommendations made in 2012 had been implemented, the risks to patients would have been significantly reduced. He promised to write to me and he did not do it. I asked him again at last week's Leaders' Questions and he promised again to write to me but still has not done it.

Comment on this

Drop him a note.

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I did receive a letter from the Minister for understatement in answer to an Order of Business query. It only arrived into my office this afternoon, so I have not been able to give it the type of consideration it requires. However, what did HIQA say in 2012 about this issue of what the Taoiseach calls "trolley waits"? It recommended that "[e]very hospital should cease the use of any inappropriate space (for example, a hospital corridor or a parking area for trolleys) to accommodate patients receiving clinical care".

What is the Minister's response in his letter today? The Ceann Comhairle must listen very intently to this.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We are over time.

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"The special delivery unit has developed a standardised definition of an inappropriate space, and accommodation of patients in inappropriate spaces is monitored by both the HSE and the IMNO."

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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This is Alice in Wonderland, or Leo in Enda-land, where words mean what the Government wants them to mean. Is it the truth that the situation in our hospitals, the crisis that our people are experiencing every single day, is the price the Government expects them to pay for the Taoiseach's brutal austerity policies?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The trampoline must be having an effect on Deputy Adams. He was asked yesterday or the day before how he proposed to fund water services.

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I will not let the people pay for them twice.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The clear implication of his response is to increase commercial rates and income tax.

Comment on this

No. The Taoiseach was not listening to me.

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He is misleading the House.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

His deputy leader says it is "all forms of formulae", that is what is going to happen.

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The Taoiseach should answer the question.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

In respect of Deputy Adams's link between the challenges the country faces-----

Comment on this

Challenges which the Government has imposed on citizens.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and austerity, as he put it, he is the person who has said in here time and again that he does not want the moneys that were put into AIB returned to the taxpayer. He wants it retained in public ownership.

Comment on this

I did not. The Taoiseach is misleading the Dáil.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

He has said that in here on more than one occasion.

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He is misleading the Dáil again.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That money should and will be returned to the taxpayer because of the mess these people left behind them when they vacated office in ignominy just a number of years ago.

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That includes Deputy McGrath.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Minister for Health did respond to Deputy Adams at length today. I have his letter here and it is a long and detailed letter, answering all the points the Deputy raised.

Comment on this

What about the specific question?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Minister says in part of his letter that the Deputy chose not to read out, that "the HSE disseminated copies of the HIQA Tallaght report to all relevant care providers and requested local assessment of service provisions against these". He went on to say, in focusing on the emergency care recommendations, the HSE wrote to all sites providing emergency care in relation to care provision in those appropriate areas.

Comment on this

Yet the Taoiseach cannot write to me.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

"Where care was provided in sites other than designated beds, it directed that risks be managed appropriately."

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What about HIQA recommendations?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is all there for Deputy Adams. He requested last week that he get a response. He got a response, but he does not want to read it.

Comment on this

I did not get an adequate response.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is a detailed response and it answers all the points he raised last week.

Comment on this

The people on the trolleys are the real story.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

He may increase commercial rates if he wants, and income tax. If that is his view, he should say it out straight.

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The Taoiseach should send the reply to the people on trolleys.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I call Deputy Ruth Coppinger.

Comment on this

Perhaps Deputy Gerry Adams would like to do the same at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Belfast.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Ray Butler should stay quiet. I have called Deputy Ruth Coppinger. Is his name Coppinger?

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