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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Water protest convictions and civil disobedience

Summary

Ruth Coppinger condemns the imprisonment of water-charge protesters, Garda involvement in meter installation and alleged unequal treatment compared with financial offenders, asking about the contractor’s arrangements. The Taoiseach defends the independent courts and says contempt of court is unlawful, while exchanges continue after the Chair declares Leaders’ Questions concluded.

Last Thursday evening, five anti-water charges activists were ordered to be incarcerated by a High Court judge for protesting against the installation of water meters not wanted by the overwhelming majority in this country. For the record, the judge discounted all suggestions of bad behaviour and jailed them solely on the evidence they had contravened and come inside a 20 m exclusion zone around meter installing. This was not based on a law passed in the House but on an injunction sought by GMC Sierra, a company owned by the richest man in Ireland, Denis O'Brien, who is a media magnate in this country.

These jailings follow hot on the heels of outrageous dawn raids on 23 people arrested in Tallaght last week. How far is the Fine Gael and Labour Party Government willing to go in its vain attempt to break the mass movement against the water charges? Just how isolated the Government is from the lives of ordinary people was graphically demonstrated last weekend at the Fine Gael conference in Castlebar when the Taoiseach had to surround himself with not one but two rings of steel, 10 ft. high fences and a phalanx of gardaí and security.

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And Deputy Bernard Durkan.

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Does this look like a Government which has brought about a democratic revolution? Does it not look more like what it is, a Government which has bled dry ordinary people to feed the greed of bankers and the financial markets, just as he is shamefully assisting in throwing to the wolves the people of Greece who are suffering the same fate?

His attempt to criminalise the movement against the water charges is anti-democratic. It is an affront to the right to protest and his use of coercion to try to split the movement against the water charges and austerity is failing. The national demonstration on 21 March will remind the Taoiseach of this once again. In April and May he will also face a massive boycott of the water bills. Will the Taoiseach join the Anti-Austerity Alliance in demanding the immediate release of the four residents imprisoned in Dublin? Will he stop the attempted criminalising of protesters? Will he recognise reality and listen to the majority of people in this country and abolish the water charges, or will he limp on and wait, alongside the Labour Party, until he, the Labour Party and the water charges will have to be obliterated in the general election?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

No, I will not. I recognise the courts of the country. I recognise the law of the land. The people in contempt of court knew very well what they were doing. It seems as if Deputy Coppinger is inviting people to break the law, no more than Deputy Murphy beside her inviting people to break breach of contract.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

She should speak to Deputy Butler today in respect of fear and intimidation and frightening young children, no more than the family of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport. I do not agree with her. The law of the land is the law of the land, and the courts are completely independent of this House and they make their decisions. In this case the judge was crystal clear.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Does the Taoiseach agree the treatment of the five people who were sentenced is in stark contrast to the sentence passed down last July to two executives from Anglo Irish Bank who gave illegal loans which led to huge financial problems in the country? In a two-minute sentence from the judge they were handed 240 hours of community service. They live in mansions in Rathgar and Malahide. Does this make them less suited to prison life? It used to be said there was one law for the rich and another for the poor in this country. Is there any law at all for the rich in this country? The HSBC tax evasion for example-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry, Deputy, we cannot be straying all over the town, please.

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What will the Taoiseach do about this?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I ask the Deputy to put her supplementary question.

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In imposing the sentence the judge said they were encouraging civil disobedience. I would like to point out to the Taoiseach that civil disobedience is a vital method of challenging unjust laws and it has been through the ages.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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We would not have the right to vote or trade union rights if we had not challenged unjust laws.

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You have those rights now.

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Is the Taoiseach aware that Photocall Ireland was visited by gardaí with a warrant to take away film it had taken-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry, Deputy, put your question please.

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-----of a protest?

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This is a Second Stage speech.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

This is not statements.

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What does the Taoiseach think of this type of development? Yesterday 30 gardaí were in a small lane in Rialto to assist with the installation of water meters by Irish Water.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry, Deputy, put your question please and listen to the Chair.

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Sorry, Ceann Comhairle, I do not know if you have noticed but these are questions.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

You are over time.

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I am not over time.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

You are over time. Please resume your seat.

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My final question-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Would you please resume your seat?

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Respect the law and respect this Chamber.

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You gave Deputy Micheál Martin over four minutes to ask his questions. I would like to finish mine, thank you.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy-----

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The Taoiseach does not seem to be concerned about the laws of the land. Another Deputy in the House asked on Leaders' Questions about GMC Sierra and how it managed to get the contract for water meter installation in this country-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy, please resume your seat and put your question.

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-----when it did not even have a company registration number. Does the Taoiseach believe there should be a High Court investigation into this?

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You are fond of the courts.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am not aware of the treatment of the persons sent to prison in contempt of court. I have read the comment from the Prison Officers Association that their treatment was the same as anybody else's in prison. These people knew very well what they were doing. They wanted to be in contempt of court as far as I can assess. Clearly the courts are completely and utterly independent of the House.

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Of course.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Coppinger asked me whether I thought their treatment was fair. It is for the courts to make their decisions and these people were jailed for contempt of court. I do not think it is fair to have the kind of treatment meted out to the Tánaiste of the Government, to the family of a Government Minister or, last night, to the family of a Deputy going about his legitimate business.

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What does that have to do with it?

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Water protesters' tactics.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is not in order to stop any person from going about their legitimate business in this country. The point is that while peaceful protest has always been part of our democracy, contempt of court is not. The law of the land-----

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They were jailed for peacefully protesting.

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

You are leading your people into contempt of court.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Murphy is encouraging people to breach a contempt of court. He knows as well as I do what is the law of the land. If you want political leadership then do not attempt to lead a mob.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

That completes Leaders' Questions for today.

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What about HSBC and the Anglo two? Will the Taoiseach answer that?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We now move on to questions to An Taoiseach.

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The Taoiseach conveniently brushed over that one.

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

Deputy Higgins is leading the people astray and misleading them.

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You did a bit of time yourself for protesting in the 1960s. Does the Taoiseach know that? How long were you in Mountjoy?

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

You were in there yourself but you did not stay too long.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

We have finished Leaders' Questions, thank you.

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How much time did you spend in Mountjoy?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Would you please stay quiet? Thank you.

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