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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Delayed discharges and fair deal funding

Summary

Gerry Adams described the national trolley crisis, citing 479 patients waiting in hospitals, HIQA warnings and large numbers awaiting Fair Deal support, and sought emergency measures. The Taoiseach acknowledged the serious challenge but defended transitional beds, home-care packages, Fair Deal reforms and the Government’s health service plan.

This morning there were 479 citizens - I use the term "citizen" advisedly - languishing on trolleys in hospital corridors. The second highest number, 40 citizens, are in Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda in my constituency. I have raised this issue consistently on Leaders' Questions. It predates my election to this institution.

I have raised with the Taoiseach three times a letter from HIQA which points out that if recommendations it made in 2012 had been implemented, the current risk to patients would have been significantly reduced. The Taoiseach has yet to respond adequately to me on this issue. This deepening crisis is absolutely unacceptable and he should start his answer to me by acknowledging that.

What does the Minister for Health say when he is not talking to the Minister for Justice and Equality or smirking at Fianna Fáil? He says that this problem is a feature of our dysfunctional health system and that this is nothing new. He says that it only stands to reason that lives could be lost. He is the Minister for Health; he is not a neutral commentator. One could presume from his answers that lives have already been lost.

Is this not a national crisis? Is this not a totally unacceptable situation? The Taoiseach has refused to deal with it. There has been a Punch and Judy act between him and Fianna Fáil on these deadly serious issues. He allocated €25 million to the fair deal scheme.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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That deals with only 300 citizens, or a quarter of those who have been clinically discharged. The Government gave more to the consultants in Irish Water. Will the Taoiseach acknowledge that this is a national crisis? Will he put in place emergency measures to tackle it?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I said in response to the leader of the party with no health policy that this is a matter of challenge for the Government. The Minister, Deputy Varadkar, has the full support of the Government in making arrangements to deal with this. That is why he set up the emergency task force to deal with delayed discharges.

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The Minister, Deputy Reilly, got the same support until you shafted him.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That is why €25 million was made available which reduced the time people had been waiting for the fair deal and allowed for the beds I mentioned to be opened on both a transitional and an emergency basis. Of course it is realistic to say there are serious challenges facing the health system. The profession and system, while still challenged, is working better than it was when €16 billion was allocated to it.

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Who told the Taoiseach that?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

On 17 February, there were 755 delayed discharges nationally, of which 370 were in the Dublin academic teaching hospitals.

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The Taoiseach made choices in the budget.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Some 555 of those delayed discharges were destined for long-term residential care. The point made by the eminent doctor is of course true. It is not an acceptable situation to have so many elderly people in these situations, and nobody wants to see that. That is why the review of the fair deal will allow for the Minister to present a report to Government on dealing with the challenges and how best to manage the situation effectively for the future. The report will also examine the consequences of the extra moneys allocated to deal with the opening of transitional and emergency beds. As I said, the budget for 2015 included an allocation of €600 million to cover the overrun of €500 million, and about €150 million which is modest in the context of the overall budget.

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It is paltry in the context of people dying.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is part of implementing the health service plan presented by the HSE which has been accepted by Government.

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There have been many warnings that patients' lives are at risk as a result of Government policy. Last night's "Prime Time" focused on this issue. This time the warning came from the former national director of acute hospitals, Dr. Tony O'Connell. That warning was issued last September, but the Oireachtas was not told about it by the Taoiseach or the Minister for Health. It came by dint of a freedom of information inquiry from an investigative journalist. So much for transparency or Paddy or Patricia needing to know.

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In response to my first question, the Taoiseach said the system is working better.

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Paddy is cheesed off.

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When Dr. O'Connell wrote his analysis, there were 703 delayed discharge patients in the acute hospital system. Last week there were 755. How is the system working better when more patients and citizens are experiencing difficulties? He also said that some patients live permanently in our acute beds and have been waiting for more than three years for placements. Many of those affected are elderly.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please. Thank you.

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They are all sick and most, if not all, have been approved for private nursing care under the fair deal scheme, but they have not received the funding. There are currently 1,239 citizens waiting 11 weeks for fair deal funding. This situation is scandalous. Whatever Fianna Fáil did, this is happening on the Taoiseach's watch. He has been Taoiseach for four years. Dr. O'Connell concluded that-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry, Deputy. Put your question, please.

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-----the long-term solution to this problem is adequate funding of the social care sector. It is ABC stuff. If it is not safe to send citizens home, then we have to provide the social protections they deserve. That then frees up hospital beds and so on. Why has the Government ignored this building crisis? Why have the warnings from Dr. O'Connell and the HIQA recommendations been set to one side? I put it to the Taoiseach earlier that this is a national emergency.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Thank you.

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The Government should take emergency measures to deal with it.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Martin has no policy and Deputy Adams has no faith. Deputy Adams decided to go elsewhere to get his health treatment, which is his choice.

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I beg your pardon. The policy the Taoiseach put before the House would take ten years.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Fianna Fáil has no health policy.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Settle down and let us hear the reply to Deputy Adams.

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He would not answer on "Morning Ireland".

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I apologise. I was taken by the Taoiseach.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Martin has no health policy.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Dooley, allow Deputy Adams to get his reply.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

He wants it all funded by increases in income tax. Deputy Adams has no faith in the Irish health system which we are now trying to fix for everybody.

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Answer the question, Taoiseach.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Minister for Health has presented, from the HSE, the health service plan for 2015.

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The Government was going to disband it.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Government responded to that by not only dealing with the €500 million overrun of last year but also by putting more than €100 million into the budget for this year. Clearly, there are challenges. Nobody wants to see elderly people on trolleys and people who do not need to be in a hospital being kept there when they should be in transitional beds, nursing homes or other accommodation in order that they can have their medical needs properly supplied, but are prevented from accessing those services because of costs.

That is why it is important that there should be a review of the fair deal scheme-----

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Answer the question.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----which will be brought here.

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The review has taken four years.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The extra beds that were allocated-----

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Four years and two Ministers.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----included some in the Deputy's locality. There were 400 home care packages approved for Dublin and 80 home care packages currently deployed throughout the country and the rate is increasing daily.

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Not on the northside.

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Does the Taoiseach believe that?

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Change the script.

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How many are on the northside?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

In order to support the Dublin academic teaching hospitals and Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital and Naas General Hospital, a further 165 transitional beds were approved on 5 December to alleviate delayed discharges.

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Answer the question.

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Answer the question.

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Stop waffling.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As of 26 January 2015, all of those beds have been accessed.

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Answer the question.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The health service plan was accepted by the Government and the Minister has our full support in attempting to manage this.

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Give the man another page.

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The Minister today said it is going to get worse.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We accept that this is a challenge and we want to see how best we can manage this in the interests of every patient.

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It is a bigger challenge for the patients.

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Four years later.

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