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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Mortgage arrears and home repossessions

Summary

Micheál Martin presses the Taoiseach to intervene for families facing repossession, arguing banks are not engaging and existing insolvency measures are inadequate. The Taoiseach rejects claims of government inaction, says adjustments to the personal insolvency framework are needed, and promises further measures in April, amid heated exchanges and interruptions.

Last week, I raised the issue of home repossessions and mortgage arrears and the numbers of cases coming before the courts. There have been 7,000 repossession orders lodged in the courts as of January of this year, not to mind the 8,000 last year, and it is estimated that over the next two years up to 25,000 family homes could be repossessed.

It is interesting to note that two thirds of those in arrears are actually in employment, demonstrating a capacity, if the banks would only engage with them, to meet their obligations under sustainable resolutions.

Last week, my party colleague, Deputy Michael McGrath, brought forward the Family Home Mortgage Settlement Arrangement Bill in good faith. That Bill would have ended the situation whereby the banks have been in the driving seat and have dictated the pace and nature of resolutions because of the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act introduced by the Government in 2013.

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The eviction act.

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To end that situation and to dilute the power of the banks, we brought in constructive legislation last week but the Government said "No way", that it was not going to accept it and kept its head in the sand in terms of the enormity of the issue. The Government then put forward the line that somehow it was the borrowers' fault and that those in arrears were not engaging with the banks. Two days later, after the Taoiseach denied that there was any need for any change - the Minister for Finance, following the listing of over 200 repossession cases in court in Limerick, came forward and said that to be fair to the banks, they were just getting involved to force people to engage. That was both a dishonest and detached intervention by the Minister for Finance. The banks are not bringing people to court to force them to engage because, as FLAC has pointed out, there is no legal aid or remedy available once they get into court. They are being brought to court because property prices are rising, valuations are rising and the banks can now get their money back.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Can we have a question please?

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It was a very detached comment by the Minister for Finance in the context of the extraordinary anxiety and stress for many ordinary families, couples, women and so forth, who were brought before the courts to have their houses repossessed. The problem is growing at an alarming rate. The Minister said he would change the personal insolvency legislation: the service has only dealt with 199 cases to date. Will the Taoiseach confirm that the Government is prepared to change the personal insolvency or other legislation to intervene on behalf of those who are facing repossession of their family home?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I do not accept the Deputy's assertion that the Government blamed the borrowers for the situation that has arisen. Nor do I accept his assertion that the Government has kept its head in the sand with regard to these matters.

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This Government brought in the eviction bill----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I agreed with the Tánaiste when we set out our scheme of priorities for the remainder of the lifetime of this Government last July. We undertook to review the personal insolvency legislation and a range of other measures to deal with distressed mortgages. We also reiterated that the Government has no policy at all in the sense of wanting to see people put out of their homes----

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The Government has no policy at all to stop it----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The fact is that there has to be engagement and a process by which that can happen.

I spoke to the Tánaiste at some length this morning about this and the Government recognises that adjustments to the personal insolvency framework are necessary. Such adjustments would include increasing awareness of what the insolvency service is about and the assistance it can give to those families whose mortgages are in distress; an independent audit of the quality of the deals recommended by the personal insolvency practitioners; and an outline of the options that are open to borrowers where insolvency arrangements have been rejected by the creditors, that is, the banks as well as the supports available to families who cannot meet the terms of restructured mortgages negotiated within the insolvency framework.

The Deputy will be aware that 110,000 accounts were in arrears at the end of quarter four of 2014, a decline of 26,000 over the course of the year. Of the 100,000 mortgages that have been restructured, the vast majority of those involved are meeting the demands and conditions of their restructured accounts.

I confirmed this morning, as did the Tánaiste, that the Government has almost completed its review of these matters and will bring forward a number of other measures that will compliment the range of options that are there at the moment so that we can deal with mortgages in distress in April.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That means that the Government has looked at the workings and effectiveness of the situation at the moment. We want to see the vast majority of people retain their family homes ---

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The vast majority ---

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We will bring forward a range of other measures, following that review, in April.

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To be frank, that is a meaningless response. The Taoiseach made reference to adjustments and named three items that are not adjustments at all. Making people aware of something is not changing anything. An independent audit of how poorly a system is working is not changing anything, with only 199 cases concluded to date. The third point I could not quite understand, to be frank. The Taoiseach said there were options open to borrowers and he drifted off into an inaudible whisper. I mean it sincerely when I say that I did not catch the third point.

The Minister for Finance insisted that the Government is watching the situation very carefully and is also watching the way in which the insolvency legislation is being applied. He said the Government is very conscious of the policy. It was Deputy Noonan who said that the banks were using the courts to get people to engage with them who have not done so thus far. I brought an example of a case before the Taoiseach last week, where the couple involved were working for over two years to try to get the bank to engage.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Can we have a question please?

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The bank ultimately brought them to court without engaging with them. It is an insult to those people when a Government Minister or the Taoiseach says they are only being brought to court because the banks want them to engage because they have not done so to date. That is not the truth. There are lots of people out there who are at their wits' end. These are responsible people who want to keep a roof over their children's heads, who have been engaging with banks but the banks have not been engaging with them or making any realistic attempt to bring about sustainable resolutions. If the Taoiseach is to do anything, he should stop insulting people who are going through the trauma and anxiety of these court cases. For them, it is not fun. This is not, as the Minister implied, some tactical manoeuvre that the banks are engaged in.

In short, if one looks at the language emanating from Government, it is "watching" this, "monitoring" that but in essence it is doing absolutely nothing to deal with the escalating problem of repossessions and mortgage arrears.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I think Deputy Martin is getting desperate.

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It is not Deputy Martin who is desperate; it is the people.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Stay quiet please. It is not the Deputy's question. He should stay quiet for a change.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As we see the economy begin to improve, all that the Deputy is left with to attack are the remnants of the disastrous policy that his party followed when in government. The Deputy says that the Government has done nothing but there are more options on the table for people in mortgage distress than in most other countries----

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Only 199 cases have been dealt with.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Please Deputies. A question was asked and it is being answered.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The personal insolvency service has not been dealing with as many cases as we would like to see but contrary to Deputy Martin's view, I think it is very important that when people are in mortgage distress they know the range of options and assistance available to them. It is also fair to look to the situation that has arisen in the context of people who are looking for credit whereby the Credit Review Office gives an independent view and has given directions to banks to overturn decisions. The Minister for Justice and Equality of the day brought in an amendment so that when cases went to court, an independent review of the options put forward by the practitioner would be possible before a court case situation arises.

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That is nonsense.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That is something that we have to look at. What are the options open to a family where the value of their house is written down to the current market value but they still cannot meet the repayment conditions? These are real-life conditions that were created by a Government that did not care.

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Egged on by Deputy Kenny at the time ---

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We are down to 37,000 cases in arrears for more than 720 days and we want to see the vast majority of those sorted out. Far from following Deputy Martin's assertion that nothing is being done, we will bring forward a number of other measures to deal with these kinds of cases in April.

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The Taoiseach cannot specify those measures now.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

They will be designed to help people----

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Why can the Taoiseach not specify them now? We had a debate on this issue last week. Why did the Government not outline those new measures in the House then?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

----who are having problems with their family homes. This all goes back to the Deputy's own outfit which did not give a damn about what it did.

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Those kinds of glib soundbites got the Taoiseach elected but they will not get him re-elected.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I call Deputy Adams.

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There was a big fundraiser in Limerick last Friday. On the same day that the repossession cases were going on in court, Fine Gael-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I said Deputy Adams; Deputy Collins is not Deputy Adams. He should let Deputy Adams ask his question.

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----was courting big business. The repossession cases were going on and----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Collins, please.

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That is the truth.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I am not interested in listening to you; I am interested in hearing Deputy Adams's question.

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