I am sure the Minister will accept that since the 1990s this House has debated many scandals, allegations and issues surrounding sexual abuse, particularly of children and young people, and the rape of young people, which happened across the country in different contexts within the church from diocese to diocese, within sport, particularly in swimming, and within schools. There is an ongoing inquiry, for example, into child abuse in Northern Ireland. We have had many inquiries here and many commissions of inquiry in the Republic. One need only recall Cloyne, Ferns and Dublin, to give a number of examples.

Everyone in this House was very clear in terms of condemning that abuse and in condemning anybody who would have been complicit in the cover up of that abuse. I am particularly mindful of the very strong and strident comments of Deputy Mary Lou McDonald. Back in 2009, which was a significant year, as we know now, in the context of the report of abuse in the Dublin diocese, she said that anyone, including gardaí, found to be complicit in the cover-up of child abuse must be arrested and made to face the full rigours of the law. She also made other significant comments on that occasion. If one substituted the words "Sinn Féin leadership" or Sinn Féin authorities" for the words "the church", "gardaí" or "others", I wonder would people come to the same conclusion in terms of what should happen.

Suffice to say that allegations were ignored across the board for too long and many people were emotionally scarred and traumatised as a result. One of the big issues for many people in those abuse scandals was the fear of coming forward, the fear of being stigmatised and, above all, the fear of not being believed and being undermined by those who would have abused them.

When the Maíria Cahill episode occurred we saw similar patterns emerging of attempts to undermine her credibility, and an online campaign was launched against her undermining her character and so on. This week we have had the heartbreaking account of Paudie McGahon's story on the "Spotlight" programme on Tuesday night. He gained the courage to tell his story, and Maíria Cahill telling her story was the trigger for him to go public on the issue. Both of their actions have encouraged others to come forward. Fundamentally, the people want justice and the truth. It is very important that we be clear that there is a responsibility on all involved to obey the law and to respond to the legal requirements. I was struck by the fact that on LMFM yesterday, the leader of Sinn Féin, Deputy Adams, when asked whether it was not a breach of the Children First guidelines - whose aim is to protect children - not to report this, made an extraordinary comment to the effect that, first of all, in order for a statement to be made to the Garda, someone needs to substantiate it.

A question, please, Deputy.

This is fundamentally not the case. There are two elements to this: there is the issue of a criminal investigation, and the issue of reporting this to the HSE, at the time, and now to Tusla. There is a fundamental issue with regard to protecting children right now. Those who abused people are still at large and could abuse others within their families, neighbourhoods or communities.

The fundamental point I want to put to the Minister is this. Given the fact that we have faced up to this before with regard to different institutions, I ask the Government to give serious consideration to establishing a commission of inquiry into the allegations of the "Spotlight" programme and wider issue of how Sinn Féin as an entity dealt with allegations of child abuse. We know from the events in Ferns and Cloyne that where co-operation is forthcoming, these inquiries can be expeditious and efficient and can get to the truth of the matter. That can happen where there is co-operation, full disclosure and the provision of information to such a commission of inquiry. There are different ways of doing that, and it is time we had such a commission.

I thank the Deputy for his comments. I agree with him on the points he made, particularly the important point that anybody who has information should bring it forward to the relevant authorities, whether that be An Garda Síochána, Tusla or the HSE. There is an obligation on anybody who feels that children are at risk in any way and has information to suggest that children at risk to bring it forward. Certainly, the courage of Maíria Cahill and Paudie McGahon in coming forward will give other people the courage to do so as well. That has been the general experience when programmes such as the "Spotlight" programme have been shown. A representative from the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre interviewed on radio this morning indicated that it has had an increased number of calls. Therefore, it is vital that information is provided by anyone who has it.

I agree with the Deputy that there are questions to be answered by Sinn Féin in regard to the information it has, particularly in regard to people who may be abroad in our society, whether in this country or elsewhere, and are a risk to children. The Children First guidelines and all the various measures that have been implemented give clear guidance as to what should be done.

I would also question Deputy Adams in particular regarding what he said - namely, that he needed more substantial information. If a person has any concerns that children are at risk, then he or she should go to the Garda. There are certainly questions to be answered. There are particular questions as well about another matter. As has been admitted, there were "internal inquiries", if I can use that nice phrase; "kangaroo courts" is another term that is used.

Kangaroo courts.

If there were such practices, are there people in Sinn Féin who have information as to who attended those courts, where they are now and what information is available in order to protect children? There are a great deal of questions to be asked. I think more information will be provided.

The question the Deputy raised about a commission of inquiry is one that can be considered. There is certainly an onus on Sinn Féin to give the information to the appropriate people. That is the first obligation and it is a very serious one. Many members of Sinn Féin and others in this House have frequently raised issues to do with child protection - Deputy Martin rightly raised this issue - and those are issues we all take very seriously. This Government and, I acknowledge, previous Governments have put many measures in place. We cannot be concerned only about child abuse that occurred in the past in institutions. If we have information, we have a duty to bring it forward to the appropriate authorities.

The only way it can come forward now is through a commission of inquiry. It could be done on a module-by-module basis and in this jurisdiction alone it could be very revealing.

Surely people would come forward in the context of a commission of inquiry and say who was involved in that kangaroo court in 2002. Who were the people who attended it and carried out the internal investigation, who were essentially complicit in preventing it from getting to the Garda? I have talked to people in the child law area. There is a duty defined in legislation and interpreted in case law to be proactive in their investigation of allegations of abuse for the purpose of protecting children from potential abuse now or into the future.

A question that would have to be asked, for example, is where are those alleged perpetrators now? These people exiled this person in 2002 in the full knowledge that the person had committed abuse not just to Paudie McGahon, but to others. The bottom line is what access did that perpetrator and others have to children in their daily lives through family or employment?

Thank you, Deputy.

That is why allegations of abuse have to be investigated - to show that children are not exposed to potential abuse. In terms of any information that is held by Sinn Féin or its associates, therefore, there is a legal obligation that this knowledge or information should be provided now to Tusla and to the Garda in order to protect children who could potentially be exposed to further abuse by an individual or individuals against whom allegations have been made.

I would make the point-----

A question please.

-----that, as we know, some commissions of inquiry have held their hearings in confidential settings and then produced comprehensive reports to shine a light on the practices, what happened and did not happen and who was complicit in the cover-up of grave allegations. The bottom line is that in 2002, which is not too long ago, all of this was deliberately, premeditatively kept from the Garda and the Health Service Executive, HSE. It defies any credibility that senior people within the ranks of Sinn Féin did not know what was going on, given the circumstances surrounding the case itself and the personalities involved.

Thank you, Deputy.

It is just not credible, but in 2009 we learned that the leader of Sinn Féin, on his own admission, knew about this and did not refer it to the HSE or the Garda at the time.

A disgrace.

It is as plain, simple and straightforward as that, and no satisfactory response or explanation has come from the leader of Sinn Féin, and none will come because we are tired of the mantra of "Please come forward".

Put your question, Deputy.

These people themselves know, so a statutory basis is the only way forward now in terms of trying to get to the bottom of this and getting the truth.

While a commission of inquiry would certainly have merit, the most urgent aspect is that information that is available is given to the authorities now because if children are at risk now, we need people who know to come forward. I agree with the Deputy that information that was available in 2009, and before and after, should be given to the appropriate authorities. I find it incredible that there is not knowledge of these matters because, inevitably, from the information we have from Mairia Cahill, and from Paudie McGahon, there was extensive practice that anybody who has knowledge of must bring forward now.

A commission of inquiry would take time to set up, and it would have to have structures and so on.

Maybe we should ask Sinn Féin.

Cop on to yourself.

I accept there would be merit in that, but the urgency of the matter is that information that is available should be given now.

I would be concerned that immediately after the "Spotlight" programme an MP representing Northern Ireland came out and rubbished the programme. Others have since made other comments, but that is an indication that there is a mindset that still does not want to declare the information they have. Everybody in this House has an onus to ensure that whatever information is available it is brought forward now in order to protect children in whichever jurisdiction.

It is more than a mantra to say that those with information must come forward. It was most eloquently put by Paudie McGahon who said that nobody should be afraid to come forward.

Why were they afraid?

I want to reiterate that. Victims of sexual abuse, rape and sexual violence are often anxious and fearful about coming forward. It can be fear of not being accepted by their own families.

Or being shot.

It can be fear-----

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, if you do not mind-----

Excuse me, this is Leaders' Questions where we have questions from the leaders and answers from the Minister.

It can be fear of social ostracisation. It can be fear for very many reasons. In the case of Paudie McGahon or others who say they were abused by so-called republicans-----

And you do not believe them.

-----members of the IRA, the fear, understandably, can be more profound.

I echo what Paudie has said - nobody be afraid. The only way in which we deal with matters of abuse in our society, irrespective of who the abuser is, is when people feel empowered to come forward in whatever manner is best for them. Some have come into the light of the public gaze and told their story. Paudie has done it, and Maíria Cahill before him. That took a great deal of courage, and I want to acknowledge them for it. That is my first point.

Second, anybody within Sinn Féin or anybody anywhere else who has information on these issues or on any child who may be in danger or at risk has, since 2012, a positive legal obligation to bring that information forward. That is the law of the land.

As a member of Sinn Féin, on behalf of my colleagues-----

We routinely bring forward information to the statutory authorities as a matter of course.

A proposition was made by the Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, to An Taoiseach last November to create a process, a mechanism and a climate in which those who suffered abuse can come forward on the basis of a North-South intervention between the Government here in Dublin and the Executive in the North. It took until the other day for the Taoiseach to even respond to or acknowledge that proposal.

It took Gerry a lot longer.

A question please, Deputy.

It is now essential that we create that mechanism and allow people the opportunity to come forward and to access the justice system and also the considerable supports a survivor of sexual violence, rape or abuse requires. My question to the Minister is whether the Labour Party supports that initiative. Will this Government now work with the Northern Executive to create that mechanism to allow people to come forward?

I put it to Deputy McDonald that in the first part of her intervention, she put the onus back on the victims, people who were abused. In the second part of her contribution, she put the onus on other authorities. That is avoiding the responsibility that she and her own party have-----

Hear, hear.

It is about time the Deputy and her own party took their responsibility in this matter rather than putting it on people who were abused and providing a smokescreen in regard to a North-South intervention. I do not have a problem with that but that is not the point. The point is that there is information within the Deputy's party and with others she was associated with that must be brought forward. We know, for example, that Sinn Féin and the IRA conducted their own investigation into child abuse, and I understand there are about 100 cases. It is about time the Deputy told us what people around her know, her role within her party and others who have, and have had, particular roles within her party.

It is all very well to fire missiles around this Chamber in regard to child abuse-----

They have not gone away, you know.

-----but she is trying to avoid any responsibility for herself and her party.

That is what the courts are for.

It is not my intention to fire missiles or anything else around the Chamber. We find ourselves faced with a number of traumatic sets of circumstances.

The Minister should bear in mind this. When all the commentary is over, the political point-scoring is done and the dramatic grandstanding on some people's parts is finished, the victims will be left with their pain. That is what needs to be sorted.

Deputy McDonald should not pretend to care for them.

Order, please.

Let me say this to reassure the Minister.

It is outrageous.

There is nothing outrageous about acknowledging the pain and suffering of victims. How that is outrageous is beyond me.

It is a pity Deputy McDonald did not do it when she was chairman of Sinn Féin.

Order, please.

Let me say this. I fully acknowledge and I fully understand the responsibilities that I have, as an elected representative, as a citizen, as a member of Sinn Féin and as the deputy leader of this party. I fully understand the onus - let me speak directly to republicans - on every last one of us-----

Speak to the people.

-----to ensure the safety of our children and to ensure that where there has been an injustice done to anybody, it is corrected. We cannot rewrite history. That is beyond our scope. What we can do is do the right thing in the here and now. Another thing that we cannot do, and that we simply will not do, is carry out the functions and role of An Garda Síochána or the PSNI in the North.

Why were there kangaroo courts?

Why were they having a kangaroo court?

Order, please.

What were the kangaroo courts for then?

Before Deputy Dowds gives himself a stroke, let me remind him that I have stated clearly - let me repeat for the record so that there is no misunderstanding - that anybody with any information should bring that forward.

Change the record.

In fact, the person the Government most criticises here in the course of this exchange, Deputy Adams, has brought information forward to the Garda.

He kept it for long enough.

Please.

I understand that other elected Members of this House have done likewise, and that is absolutely the correct course of action.

Why did it take so long?

Please.

The point of the intervention by the Northern Ireland Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, was to recognise the reality for victims at the hands of so-called republicans.

There is a smokescreen here.

In my estimation, anybody who rapes a child forfeits the right to describe themselves as a republican.

But they do not have to go to the Garda station.

Order, please.

All those who have suffered in that way, and indeed others, require that we recognise the need for them to come forward in the right atmosphere and with the right supports.

How many victims are there?

Deputy Eric Byrne accused me, or Mr. McGuinness, of throwing up a smoke screen. It is not a smoke screen. It is a good proposal.

Those who work with victims and survivors - we have spoken to many of them - reckon that this is a good proposal and that it could work.

Could Deputy McDonald ask a question?

If it needs to be improved upon, let us do that.

How many more victims are there? How many more does Deputy McDonald know about?

Can we have a commitment from the Government that it will engage positively with this initiative and that we can bring it about in short order?

First, anybody who saw the "Spotlight" programme will have had a graphic account of the way in which kangaroo courts worked and the way in which victims were made to feel afraid to come forward with information. No doubt there is a significant amount of knowledge and information around all of that activity, of which persons who have been associated with Deputy McDonald's party have knowledge, and that information needs to be given now so that people can be protected. It is not enough merely to throw out an empty phrase, "Come forward".

It is not an empty phrase.

It is.

Empty vessels make the most noise.

Undoubtedly, there is a significant amount of information that should be given. I ask Deputy McDonald not only to ask victims to come forward but to ask anybody who was ever involved in any of this activity to come forward and give the information.

I have done that.

Did Deputy McDonald tell them to do it?

The Minister, without interruption.

There is clearly little evidence of that happening. Certainly, those who have had the courage to come forward about their own experience have done a considerable service and have, I hope, given courage to others, but there is a lot that Deputy McDonald and her colleagues can do on this issue.

When it comes to grandstanding, we have seen a fine example of grandstanding here today. Deputy McDonald talked about political standing. We heard a lot of eloquent generalised language. What we need is specific information that will protect children in society.