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Dáil
‹ Order of Business

Records of Irish Water meetings

Summary

Micheál Martin challenges the absence of records of key Irish Water meetings and asks whether promised legislation on ministerial accountability will be introduced. The Taoiseach says Irish Water decisions were approved by Cabinet and promises an update, but the exchange is repeatedly ruled out of order.

I refer the Taoiseach to page 3 of the programme for Government which contains a very important legislative commitment. In that context, no notes or records were kept of the series of high level meetings about Irish Water in 2012 between the then Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Commissioner Phil Hogan and the Bord Gáis chairperson, Rose Hynes. The briefing sessions took place in Mr. Hogan's Leinster House office in October-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Where are we going with this, Deputy? This is the Order of Business.

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I will explain briefly. They were held in October and November that year. According to records in Mr. Hogan's diary there were no civil servants at either meeting which took place at a time when many key issues were being considered. There were no notes for more than half of all the meetings between the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and Bord Gáis in the first six months of the utility's-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Sorry, Deputy, this is the Order of Business. I have to ask you, please, like everybody else, to adhere to the rules.

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I will come to it. There is a context to the question I will ask.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

There are plenty of other ways of raising these matters.

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A total of 23 meetings took place and of those, only ten had minutes.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Details about Irish Water minutes is not on the Order of Business.

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It is, actually.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

It has nothing to do with it.

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I will tell the House why. Four years ago, page 3 of the programme for Government stated, "We will legislate for a reformulated code of laws, replacing both the Ministers and Secretaries Acts and the Public Service Management Act, which will spell out the legal relationship between Ministers and their civil servants and their legal accountability for decisions and for management of Departments". It further states, "We will bring to an end the unacceptable executive practice where no record is kept of ministerial involvement with an issue and resulting decisions". What happened that legislative commitment?

What happened with regard to the then Minister, Phil Hogan and the head of Irish Water, is absolutely unacceptable and goes to the heart of the opaqueness and the lack of transparency in setting up Irish Water. The Taoiseach went against all official advice. Out of a whole series of meetings only ten out of 23 were minuted and four meetings between the Minister and Bord Gáis officials were not recorded.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I suggest the Deputy puts down a parliamentary question.

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A Deputy

A democratic revolution.

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It makes a laughing stock of the Taoiseach's commitment to the programme for Government.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

All of the decisions in regard to the setting up of Irish Water were approved by Cabinet and where appropriate were given independent evaluation by the independent regulator dealing with this matter.

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That is not my question.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The decisions to be made about Irish Water were all approved by Cabinet at the appropriate time.

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I asked about the commitment on legislation in the programme for Government. Why was that legislation not introduced? Will it be introduced?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I cannot answer for the Taoiseach.

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He has an obligation to answer a very straight question I put to him. Will he introduce the legislation as committed to on page 3 of the programme for Government?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I will give the Deputy an update on the work.

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I do not want an update. Either the Taoiseach will introduce the legislation or he will not.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Resume your seat, please, Deputy.

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Or else, the Taoiseach is guilty of gross hypocrisy in terms of how he has been behaving on this issue. Will he introduce it?

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