Irish Water payment figures
Paul Murphy repeatedly asks how many Irish Water bills have been paid and whether payment levels were discussed with Government, citing refusals to disclose the figures. Richard Bruton provides no figures, refers him to the Information Commissioner or responsible Minister, and defends Irish Water; deputies and the Chair then dispute the unanswered questions as the sitting moves on.
I wish to remind the Minister of what the Taoiseach said yesterday during Leaders' Questions: "I have been a supporter for a very long time of the idea that Dáil questions should be answered as fully and as completely as possible." Fair play to the Taoiseach. Perhaps he could have let the Minister, Deputy Noonan, know that this is the approach of the Government. Four weeks ago I asked the Taoiseach a very simple question. I asked how many people had paid the water charges so far. In response, he advised me to toddle along to the AV room where Irish Water would give me the answers to any questions I wished to ask. Indeed, he accused me of thinking I was Julius Caesar because I wanted an answer to a question in the segment of Dáil business known as Leaders' Questions. He then said that the point of Leaders' Questions was to tell us where to go.
Undeterred by this less than full and complete answer, Deputy Coppinger and myself duly toddled along to the audiovisual room and asked the people from Irish Water the question. They confirmed that over 600,000 bills had passed their pay-by date and that they knew how many of those had been paid and how many had not. However, they refused outright to give us the figures for payment.
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They said it would not be helpful to do so. Helpful to whom? We then took the advice of the Minister, Deputy Noonan, that if one really wants an answer to a question, one has to submit a freedom of information request. We duly submitted the request, in response to which Irish Water confirmed that by 18 May almost 800,000 bills had passed their pay-by date, although it again refused to say how many had paid and not paid on the grounds that disclosure of the information could reasonably be expected to result in undue disturbance of the ordinary course of business. Could that be because the payment levels are on the floor and disclosure of the figures would undermine the Government's scare campaign and give many others the confidence not to pay?
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Could it be that it would give confidence to people, particularly at a time when people are looking at the IBRC scandal, the bailout and write-offs for the rich, for the Denis O'Briens, at the expense of the majority through measures such as the water charges?
Four weeks later, I came back to the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, in place of the Taoiseach. By now almost all of the bills have issued-----
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I am at the question now. A total of 1.4 million bills have passed their pay-by date. I ask for a full and complete answer to two simple and precise questions. Have the figures for rates of payment been discussed between Irish Water and the Government? How many of those due to pay have paid the water charges by now and how many have not?
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If the Deputy is unhappy with the response to the freedom of information request, there is an independent Information Commissioner, who will deal with those issues.
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What about the parliamentary question?
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Although I do not have the information that the Deputy seeks available to me here, I can say that the establishment of Irish Water is an important national infrastructure. We have laboured under a system in which 34 different local authorities have operated a water network. We have seen leakages from that water network of up to 50%.
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In this city, the supply system has been on a knife edge, and we saw last year interruptions of supply.
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Deputy Bruton will not answer the question.
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We are now introducing a system whereby we will have a single utility which will have a revenue stream.
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We will have another commission of investigation on this.
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We need a modern water infrastructure that is fit for purpose, and that is what the Government has been putting in place. There will be multiples of the revenue stream in terms of investment into that infrastructure to provide a system that will be fit for the 21st century. It will be available to support job creation, home ownership and home building.
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May I remind the Minister for the second time what the Taoiseach said yesterday? "I have been a supporter for a very long time of the idea that Dáil questions should be answered as fully and as completely as possible."
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I asked the question in the Dáil four weeks ago. I was told by the Taoiseach to go to Irish Water, to toddle along, where I would be given the answer. Four weeks have passed and we come back and ask the same questions again.
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The Minister did not answer one of my two questions. I am going to ask it very clearly and would like a clear answer in response. Has the Government discussed the levels of payment with Irish Water? Has there been communication of information about the levels of payment from Irish Water to the Government? I would like a clear answer to that question. It is simply not credible that they have not been discussed. The only conclusion people can draw is that the Government is hiding the figures, although it boasted about the bloated registration figures, because the figures are on the floor. That explains the scare tactics and the attempt to suggest Irish Water can take the charges from people's wages, social welfare benefits or pensions when it simply cannot. That is simply a dirty lie.
To come back to simple questions, looking for simple answers, has the Government discussed the payment levels with Irish Water and can the Minister please give us the figures?
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In the old days we would have called it a cover-up.
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I am afraid the Deputy will have to table a question to the Minister responsible.
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I do not have that answer. Leaders' Questions is not designed to table individual questions to individual Ministers.
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Deputy Bruton should not be taking Leaders' Questions.
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I can assure Deputy Paul Murphy that the introduction of Irish Water has been a very important element of a strategy to improve our water system. People who register by 30 June will have access to a conservation grant, which will be a very significant bonus.
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The Minister should answer the question.
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In a modern economy we need a modern water system. We have put in place a utility that will establish a properly managed approach.
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He is the Minister for propaganda.
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As we have seen in respect of a serious problem, namely, lead in water, which has been an issue of public concern, it is only through the establishment of Irish Water as a national utility that this issue has been identified. A national programme is now being put in place to deal with it. We are seeing the benefits of having a single integrated utility already and I believe it is the correct approach.
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Has the Government discussed it with Irish Water?
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This is a joke. Is there no obligation to respond to regular questions?
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Is the Ceann Comhairle not meant to ask people to answer the questions?
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It is not the Minister's either. He also does not answer parliamentary questions.
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The Deputies know full well there is a difference between a parliamentary question and Leaders' Questions.
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Deputy Paul Murphy should try submitting 19 parliamentary questions. He might be lucky.