Over 300,000 families across the country are still being screwed by the banks in regard to standard variable rate mortgages. These are families who have benefited least from the current low interest rate environment across Europe. Their mortgage interest rates have steadily increased while those of others have fallen. The response has been totally inadequate. We are talking about very substantial amounts of money for the families concerned. Someone on €200,000 mortgage over 20 years is paying over €992 more than somebody starting a new mortgage or nearly €4,000 more than someone with an average European mortgage. It is unacceptable and they have borne the brunt for far too long.

The Taoiseach said last April: "From any moral point of view, from any ethical point of view, when banks are now restructured and on their way to making profit again, it is just not acceptable that when they themselves can borrow at much cheaper rates, that they continue to have higher rates applied to mortgage holders." However, nothing has happened since then. The Taoiseach said last week: "We have a budget coming up in October. There are opportunities for the Minister to deal with the banks if that is the case and if that is necessary." Yesterday evening, the Minister, Deputy Michael Noonan, said in Brussels that the banks have moved. He had the incredible nerve to suggest that the banks have moved on this issue, but they have not moved at all with any conviction in regard to standard variable mortgage rates.

Who will protect the people?

The Taoiseach said that, if necessary, legislation would be introduced. The Government is huffing and puffing on this, sending out hints that it will do this and will do that, and that it will threaten the banks with penal levies and so forth.

A question, please, Deputy.

We have put legislation before the House this week. It is constructive legislation which would give the Central Bank the capacity to intervene for those 300,000 mortgage holders and also for the 46,000 mortgage holders who are at the mercy of vulture funds. Will the Taoiseach accept our legislation and move on from Second Stage to Committee Stage, given that the Minister of State, Deputy English, said that he agreed with the purpose and the objective of the Bill, or is it the case that the Taoiseach has given up on standard variable rate mortgage holders altogether?

No, I have not given up at all on standard variable mortgage interest rates. I stand by the point of view I expressed earlier that, from any moral point of view, where banks are able to borrow at much lower rates now that they have been restructured, and restructured in the interests of the people and not for the banks' facilities, that they should bear that in mind in terms of the lending rates they allow for their customers.

It is not true to say that banks have not moved at all; there has been some movement from the banks. The Deputy is well aware that the Minister met all the banks and they were to respond by 1 July. Some have made some movement about having fixed rates of interest, others have made some moves about cash-back for customers, there has been a reduction in interest rates, admittedly by a small amount, in respect of some others, and some new products and new facilities have been made available. That, however, does not deal with the difficulty that hard-pressed families have every week and every month in trying to meet what are much higher interest rates applicable here to variable mortgages than apply elsewhere.

In respect of legislation, I said that legislation would be introduced if the Central Bank required it; if the Central Bank requested legislation to be able to deal with this, then the Government would respond to that request. The Central Bank has said that it does not require legislation of this nature. The position is that the Minister has received a report from the Governor of the Central Bank. The officials in the Department of Finance are now looking at the outcome of the meetings the Minister had with all the banks and their deadline of 1 July and there will be a follow-up meeting with all the banks prior to the budget in October. I have already said to the Deputy that the option remains for the Minister for Finance, in the absence of any real movement from the banks, to take further action in the budget in October and he has already put that on the public record. Far from removing ourselves from the 300,000 people who are paying excessive variable mortgage interest rates, the pressure is still on here.

The pressure is not on because the Minister, Deputy Noonan, said yesterday that the banks have moved and that people should shop around - switch around is what he said. The pressure is off. The Taoiseach or someone leaked the European Commission report yesterday to coincide with the Fianna Fáil Private Members' Bill, saying that the EU is now stating that we cannot interfere and should not interfere, and the Central Bank says we should not interfere. What about the role of the Government to ensure that the Central Bank fulfils its obligation in regard to consumer protection? What is happening to those 300,000 families is unjust. The July deadline has passed and the banks have not moved in any substantive way on the standard variable rate mortgage interest issue, and no one can deny that they have not moved. The Minister of State, Deputy English, said yesterday evening that the option of legislation is still open. The Taoiseach is saying this morning that it is not open because the Central Bank has said it is not open. The Government does not want to initiate any legislation in this regard.

Who is in charge?

The Bill before the House is constructive legislation. Despite the Minister of State, Deputy English, saying that he accepted the principle of it, the Taoiseach intends to vote it down this evening. He will continue to pretend to the thousands of families affected that we mean to do something, that we gave the banks this deadline and, as he said, that officials are now looking at the outcome of meetings. In the name of God, who is the Taoiseach trying to cod with this spin-doctoring that has been going on for months-----

For years.

-----and years on this issue? There has been no action in regard to it - nothing. It is about time that he put flesh on the bone of the spin and intervened. There is legislation before the House this evening and I ask him to allow it to be approved.

The Deputy made a claim that I leaked the European Commission report.

I said someone leaked it.

No. The Deputy said, "You leaked the report"-----

I said quickly that someone leaked it.

-----and he then said quickly "or someone did".

I know the Taoiseach does not leak things, but people do it on his behalf all the time. He just has to read certain newspapers.

I know the Deputy does not mean that, but he put it on the record again, and I reject that.

Fine.

Your team are like a sieve.

Also, he said that the Central Bank said it was not open to the implementation of legislation to deal with this. I have said to him already this morning that the Government has repeatedly said to the Central Bank that if it wants legislative powers-----

The Taoiseach is abdicating responsibility.

-----to deal with the setting of interest rates for variable-rate mortgages in the mortgage market, it will introduce such legislation. The Central Bank, which is independent, has said it does not need this legislation-----

So it is the Central Bank's fault.

-----and it does not require it.

It is Paddy Honohan's fault.

The Deputy has never respected independence before, nor does he respect it now. He is introducing legislation by way of a Private Members' Bill with Deputy Michael McGrath, who is a decent, determined politician, to quote what he said this morning. The Central Bank has told the Government it does not want legislation of this nature. The Government has repeatedly said we will introduce legislation if it requests it. The Deputy said that the banks had not moved.

You said something different the next day. That is the problem.

Please. The Deputy has had his say.

He then clarified that by saying the banks had not moved in any substantial way. Believe me, the Government is very interested - and why not - in the 300,000 families who are paying excessive variable interest rates on mortgages.

Do something about it then.

The Government has restructured these banks-----

On the Taoiseach's watch.

They are not convinced.

-----not in the interest of the banks and their directors but in the interests of consumers, and that cost a lot of money, as the Deputy is well aware.

The consumers are the people who are feeling the effect.

Would you ever stay quiet for a minute, please?

The Minister has met all the banks. He has received a report from the Governor of the Central Bank. His officials are now looking-----

Looking?

-----at the outcome of what the banks said they would do, and the Minister will meet with them all again in early September-----

That sentence means nothing. It is vacuous and meaningless.

-----in advance of the budget in October. I hope that sets out for Deputy Martin the process and the timeline. The end result is that the Minister has the option open to him to take further action in the budget in October if the banks do not move substantially in the meantime.

They might not be finished looking at it by then.

We now know who the Taoiseach thinks runs the State. It is the Central Bank. It is not the Government.

We do not have an army council here.

Three hundred thousand households on variable mortgage rates are paying two percentage points more than the average eurozone borrower. The Taoiseach has moaned and groaned about that, but he has done nothing about it.

Last month, Sinn Féin brought forward the Central Bank (Mortgage Interest Rates) Bill 2015, which would have given the Central Bank the power to cap mortgage interest rates from banks that had been bailed out by public money. The Taoiseach's Government voted down that Bill. The Taoiseach has done something about it. He has favoured the banks again against the interests of those struggling householders and he has disguised this compliance with his usual bluster and raiméis.

Last week, the Taoiseach said that 300,000 households paying variable mortgage rates above the rates at which the banks are borrowing is not a morally justifiable position. That was before the draft European Commission report acknowledged that interest rates here are high while at the same time recommending a hands-on approach to the banks. Therein lies the reason for the Taoiseach's refusal to act on this morally unjustifiable position. He always does what the elite tell him to do. Will he stand up for the rights of Irish citizens? No. Will he stand up against the big boys in Brussels? No. I have a wee test for the Taoiseach. He should cut out the bluster, the convoluted, boring narrative, and the excuses, and reject the morally unjustifiable recommendations of the Commission. He should give the Central Bank the power to cap mortgage rates in banks that have been bailed out with public moneys, and he should stand up for Irish mortgage holders.

Hear, hear.

I will stand up for Irish mortgage holders. The problem on the far side is that between them the two parties do not have a decent policy-----

There is legislation before the House.

-----so they have to revert to trying to score points off each other-----

There is no fear of the Taoiseach scoring any points.

-----instead of putting forward their views on the economy and where it can lead to. Deputy Adams is the person who set out to wreck the Irish economy with his profligacy in the way he puts forward his propositions.

The soup kitchens will be the Taoiseach's legacy.

It is pay for nothing, have everything for nothing and all will be well.

Emigration will be his legacy.

Answer the question, Taoiseach.

I am very glad that after his engagement with the Greek Prime Minister, and I was very happy to hear his comments last night in Brussels that they have now formally applied for assistance in respect of a new programme-----

What has that got to do with interest rates?

That is the right thing to do given the circumstances that affect-----

We are not talking about Greek-----

Hold on a second, please. Thank you.

-----the ordinary people in Greece. Nobody in this country wants to go down that road, but that seems to be where Deputy Adams would like to take us.

Okay. Back to the mortgages.

The Irish mortgage holders.

Deputy Adams referred to me doing what the elite tell me to do.

Yes.

Tell me about the Magdalens. Tell me about the institutional sexual abuse and what this Government has done to try to help the victims-----

The bare minimum is what you have done.

-----of that scandal that has gone on for so long. One of the first decisions the Minister for Finance made was to reverse the cut in the minimum wage-----

What has this got to do with mortgages?

Will you answer the question?

-----from the people who had it taken away from them by the previous Administration.

He is writing the general election manifesto. Let him work.

Tell me about the fact that the Government was able to reduce PRSI somewhat on the lower levels, not increase income tax in 2012, 2013 or 2014-----

The Taoiseach is taking lessons from the Tánaiste: do not answer the question.

And water charges, and property tax.

Will you stay quiet?

-----and make a commitment to have half a million people removed from liability for the universal social charge in the October budget.

Talk down the clock.

Is that reneging upon the people who are most affected by the economic difficulties caused by the outfit opposite me? Is that kowtowing to Deputy Adams's so-called elite? As far as I am concerned, this Government will stand up for all our people-----

Million-euro profits for the banks.

-----and the priority we have given is to those most vulnerable who are most affected by the economic circumstances.

Deluded.

We will continue to prove that, Deputy Adams, and when the time comes and the people make their choice, as they will do, I believe they will see the sense of having a Government that brings progress, economic stability-----

That answers questions.

-----jobs and opportunity-----

And poverty and inequality.

-----instead of living in some kind of utopian land which would wreck this country. Deputy Adams's philosophy has caused untold damage-----

The Taoiseach should be careful. He will end up in Roscommon if he keeps that up.

-----to 11 million people in Greece.

And nothing at all to say about Irish mortgage holders.

Would you cut out the chorus? You are not impressing anybody.

The Taoiseach is on a rant.

I can assure you the people at home watching this are not impressed, and I am sure the people in the Visitors Gallery are not impressed either. Would you allow somebody to speak? We live in a democracy. I call Deputy Adams.

The Taoiseach is treating the House with contempt.

Just stay quiet for one minute.

The Taoiseach avoided the one question I put to him, which was about giving the Central Bank the power to cap mortgage interest rates for banks that had been bailed out with public money. He ignored that question. He took us through his usual raiméas and bolscaireacht. The fact is that there are 300,000 households on variable mortgage interest rates. They are being ripped off by the banks, and the Taoiseach's Government has stood by while the problem has escalated. The Taoiseach does act in the interest of the elite. His response to every issue of importance to ordinary citizens is that he is powerless to take action, yet just last week he rewarded former Taoisigh and Ministers with big hikes in their pensions while he slashed payments to lone-parent families. Whose side is the Taoiseach on? I know what side Sinn Féin is on. We are on the side of citizens.

A question, please. Thank you.

He rammed through laws to take money from families who can least afford it while former Irish Nationwide chief, Michael Fingleton, still holds on to the €1 million bonus that he promised to return to taxpayers. There is no special legislation to deal with that. Tá dlí amháin ann do dhaoine saibhre agus dlí eile do shaoránaigh eile. The bottom line is that neither the Taoiseach nor his Minister for Finance have the backbone to stand up to the banks and take action to end the punitive, morally unjustifiable interest rates being inflicted on struggling households. Is it not the case that the Taoiseach's Government has a consistent record of legislating in the interests of the wealthy and against the interests of everyone else?

Is this the reason he refuses to take action against the banks and to stand up for mortgage holders? I am an optimist so will the Taoiseach please give us an answer to the question as to whether the Government will give the Central Bank the power to cap mortgage interest rates at banks that have been bailed out?

Thank you, Deputy. You are over time.

Will the Taoiseach please just say "Yes" or "No"?

The answer to the Deputy's question is, "Yes" on one condition.

That it asks for it.

It has to request it.

The Minister for Finance has made clear on more than one occasion in his correspondence with the Central Bank that if a request comes from it to legislate in this regard, the Government will do so.

Where does the Executive power lie?

The Oireachtas enacts the legislation.

Sorry, would you stay quiet, please.

That is because the Central Bank is independent in the way it does its business. We have already made it clear that if it requires legislation, it will be made available to it. It is ask and you shall receive.

If that is democracy, God help the people.

Deputy Adams mentioned delivering only for the elite. He consistently comes up with the nonsense that the Government forgets about the ordinary citizens in our country who walk into the offices and constituency clinics of every Deputy on this side of the House just as they do in respect of everybody else. Unlike Deputy Adams, the focus of Government has been-----

Low-pay and vulture funds.

-----to create opportunities and jobs for people who want to-----

Child poverty has increased from 8% to 12%.

-----earn money, have careers and contribute to their localities, communities and lives.

Get off the truck.

This is measurable by the 104,000 new jobs created since late 2011. It is not enough but 40,000 more jobs will be created this year.

There are 70,000 children living in poverty.

A further 40,000 jobs will be created next year and again in 2017 and in 2018. This will eliminate the possibility of any person not having a job if they wish to work here. Everybody who wants to work will have the opportunity to do so.

Everybody who wants to work.

As the Deputy well knows, a well managed economy means-----

Get back to the Central Bank issue.

-----we can move on from all of the difficult decisions which our people made in the past number of years.

They definitely made them.

We are now through that gap and in a very different position than we were heretofore-----

If Carlsberg did waffle-----

-----with unemployment falling, interest rates below 2%, opportunities for investment and export stronger than ever and consumer sentiment the strongest in almost ten years.

What has this to do with mortgages?

Will the Government provide people with houses?

We are not where we want to be yet but it is very much in the right direction. Sinn Féin continually advises people to not pay the property tax, water charges or for health services.

That is another day's work.

It is progressive taxation.

Does Deputy Adams believe-----

-----people think they can live on fresh air? This country has never been afraid to accept a challenge, and we are measuring up to this one and heading very much in the right direction.

Is the Taoiseach a tool of the Central Bank or a Taoiseach for the people?

Is there any chance the Taoiseach might answer the question put to him?

We are entitled to answers, a Cheann Comhairle.

This is Leaders' Questions.

Mind your own business, I am in the Chair for the time being.

Would you ever mind your own business? The question was asked by Deputy Adams. I call Deputy Tom Fleming.

This is unbelievable.

Who are you trying to impress?

We are not getting answers to our questions.

You are not going to take me on, I can tell you. I am protecting Deputy Adams, who asked the question and not you lot who are shouting and roaring such that we cannot hear the answer. That is all I am interested in.

The Taoiseach did not answer the question.

If Deputies do not listen, they will not hear the answers.

I call Deputy Fleming.