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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Cuts to lone-parent payments

Summary

Micheál Martin says the July reduction in lone-parent payments is impoverishing families, undermining employment and leaving parents unable to afford childcare. The Tánaiste defends the reform, citing transitional arrangements, employment supports and past Fianna Fáil cuts, while disputing Martin’s statistics; no policy reversal is offered.

I am not sure whether the Tánaiste is aware of the many devastating cases that we are hearing about in e-mails and from constituents that are demonstrating the impact on so many families across the country of the cut to the one-parent family allowance that was brought in on 1 July. I received a heart-rending e-mail last week from a woman who has been working since she was 14 years of age. In recent times she has had to move back to her parents' home because of the cuts to rent allowance and her inability to afford rent. Her lowest point was going to the post office recently and realising that her payment had been cut from €150 to €81. She describes the impact of this cut. Of course, there is no increase in her wages. She will require close to €50 to pay for petrol to go to work. She wrote that what the Government has done is to make her feel ashamed and humiliated because she is a lone parent. Perhaps the Tánaiste has heard similar sentiments, because the woman's view was "What does the Tánaiste care? Her aim is to liberate lone parents." The woman wrote that the Government had just set her back years and she was ashamed of it.

Equally, the Labour Party Whip, Deputy Stagg, finds the Tánaiste's cuts indefensible. In an e-mail to his constituents who have contacted him about this matter, he stated that he voted for this in 2012 because he was told that the promised child care system would be in place before the last and most severe of the changes. Then he wrote that there had been angry debate at parliamentary party meetings on the issue and that he simply failed to see how cutting the income of the very people who are making a real effort to improve the lot of their families and themselves helps them in any way to get out of the poverty trap, when it clearly has the opposite effect. He stated that he would continue to press for a reversal of this bad decision. He finally stated that he did not blame the constituents for withdrawing support for the party, but he would continue to try to convince those who are making decisions. Clearly, Deputy Stagg has not convinced the Tánaiste, the person who has made the decision that has caused genuine suffering to many.

I have come across other cases. A 53 year old man earning €200 is now getting no lone parent payment and, because he is self-employed, he gets no family income supplement, FIS.

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Charlie McCreevy's dirty dozen.

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He has been refused FIS a second time and he has been working since he was 14 years of age. A working woman with a medical condition has been advised by the social welfare office not to work any more and to go on invalidity pension. One self-employed woman is now getting zero payment and has had to close down a child-minding service that she had been operating for ten years in order to get some work outside the home.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy should put a question.

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Is the Tánaiste aware of the deep suffering that many families are now experiencing-----

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Has she a heart?

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Does she agree with her party Whip, Deputy Stagg, that this is a bad decision, that it will not help people out of the poverty trap and that it is clearly having the opposite effect? Does she agree with Deputy Stagg's assessment of the cuts that she has introduced?

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The first point I would make about lone parents is that, notwithstanding very significant spending by the Government of which Deputy Martin was a member during the height of the boom, lone parents' risk of poverty was higher then than it is now. The Fianna Fáil-led Government refused to reform benefits for lone parents. John Downing was on radio in recent times recalling a discussion with one of the former Fianna Fáil Ministers for social protection. Notwithstanding the advice in those days of the OECD and others that lone parents were the people most at risk of poverty in Irish society, and the fact that this was a time when there was a lot of money to spend on social welfare, Fianna Fáil chose not to undertake any kind of reform.

Through a combination of approximately 19 hours per week of work and the family income supplement, FIS, the purpose of this reform, which is in its third year, is to lift the situation for lone parents and bring their income up above €400 per week, depending on the number of children they have and the hourly rate at which they are employed. For a lone parent, for instance, who would only be on one-parent family allowance for himself or herself and one child, that would work out at the moment at an average of about €220 per week. I think most people in the House would agree that is a very low income. However, if a lone parent raises his or her hours to 19 per week at the minimum wage and receives FIS as well, his or her income would rise to over €400 per week. Now, if this House and this society and country are serious-----

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Who will mind the children?

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The Tánaiste is misleading the House.

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-----and, in particular, if Fianna Fáil is serious about addressing-----

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What about childminders?

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What about the Scandinavian model of child care?

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Why are many lone parents-----

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-----the very real issues of poverty-----

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The Tánaiste is deluding herself.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Order, please.

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If Fianna Fáil is serious about addressing the very real issues of poverty-----

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By making them poorer. Does the Tánaiste believe herself? No one else does, not even her party's Whip.

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-----among lone parents-----

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Children are going to school impoverished. The Tánaiste is taking money off them.

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-----it must actually-----

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Deputy Stagg does not-----

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The Government is taking money off them.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Tánaiste has the floor, please.

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What did Deputy Stagg say? Deputy Stagg actually said-----

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He said that it was a bad decision.

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-----as recently as this morning in a local media outlet-----

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The Tánaiste has him handbagged.

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-----that, in fact, the reform was a good reform. Now, second-----

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He said that because the Tánaiste gave him a belt of a handbag.

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Deputy Stagg said it was too-----

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Deputy Stagg got caught telling the truth.

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-----in respect of Deputy O'Dea's question about child care, what we did was unique to Ireland.

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It certainly was.

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We raised the age from five years-----

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Get on with it.

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-----as it is in the UK-----

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The Tánaiste promised Scandinavian-type child care.

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The Tánaiste is not discussing the details.

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-----the North and most of Scandinavia-----

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-----to seven years to make provision for the child to get settled in primary school in and around first class. What we also did-----

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The Government did not raise the age.

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Does that solve it all?

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-----is that we brought in no requirement to work.

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Where is the child care for women?

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We established a transitional seven-year period-----

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Bring the child to work.

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It is scandalous.

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The Government would have done that anyway.

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The Government is taking money from homeless people and-----

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The Tánaiste reduced the age. She should be ashamed of herself.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputies, please.

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-----so that the requirement to work, similar to any jobseeker, arises only when the child is 14. So, we have actually brought in an extra nine-year transition period-----

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People are losing €80 per week.

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-----compared to the recommendations of the OECD-----

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The Tánaiste cut it.

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The Tánaiste should visit Barretstown.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Quiet, please.

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If the Deputies are concerned about poverty and lone parents-----

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-----they must agree, as Deputy Stagg does-----

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He does not agree.

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-----that the current system has not worked.

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One could say the same about care.

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In Fianna Fáil's time-----

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Around 1,100 children are sleeping in hotels. The Government took their homes from them.

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-----there was €1 billion per year or so-----

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-----spent on lone parents. It did not lift lone parents out of poverty.

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What about illness and jobseeker's benefits?

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The Government will put money in politicians' pension pots, though.

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That is the question Deputy Martin has to answer. Why was he never, in his long ministerial career in Fianna Fáil-----

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By taking money off the parents, is the Tánaiste making that better?

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Around 1,100 children are sleeping in hotels.

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-----concerned about trying to move lone parents in Irish society-----

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The Tánaiste always said that Brian Cowen did not-----

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Since this Government came to office, child poverty has doubled.

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-----to a better and respected place, whereas-----

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The Tánaiste does not sound too concerned about lone parents.

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Child poverty has doubled in this Government's lifetime.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputies, please.

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What Deputy Martin will not do-----

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Quiet, please.

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What Deputy Martin seems to want to do is-----

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Has the Tánaiste not met any lone parent who told her about this problem? We have.

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-----avoid the issue of lifting lone parents out of poverty.

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We did not show our concern by cutting the rate by €80.

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A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, this is scandalous.

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I want to lift lone parents out of poverty.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I am sorry, but could we have order, please?

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Should they bring their kids to work? Should they have them work as well?

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Could the person in possession please be allowed to speak? I call Deputy Martin to ask a supplementary question.

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The Tánaiste shows her concern by cutting their money.

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I will give the Tánaiste a bit of advice. This kind of political grandstanding has no impact-----

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

Is there none coming from that side of the House?

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-----or does not seek to persuade the people whom I identified this morning. It does not convince the woman who wrote to SPARK, for example, who is down €70 per week. She said she did not want to go into the figures because she would get a lump in her throat, and that she dreaded the thought of winter. All of the letters and e-mails that we are getting are saying that people cannot afford child care.

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That woman is less likely to be employed.

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One woman said that she must now tell her child to stay indoors until 1 p.m. when she returned. The Tánaiste promised a Scandinavian-type child care provision-----

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And she gave us a scandalous one.

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-----which never happened.

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They will have it.

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It never happened.

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The Government has done nothing about child care.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Quiet, please.

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The Tánaiste is surrounded by Tories.

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Another person said, "The future is very bleak for me and my gem of a 12 year old." The Tánaiste can do all of the grandstanding and political stuff that she does and quote figures that were wrong because that is what she wants to do.

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No, I did not.

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They were wrong.

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Deputy Martin's figures are wrong.

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She wants to go down the route of cuts. I will not go down there. It is just too----

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Deputy Martin's figures are wrong.

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The Tánaiste is convincing no one.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Martin has the floor.

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The Tánaiste's greatest mistake was to quote the wrong statistics. This message is not coming from me, but from people who were incensed by her performance on this issue last week. They are fed up of trying to play figure against figure. The policy is not working. In 2012, more than 60% of lone parents were at least in part-time employment. The figure in 2014 was 36%.

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That figure is wrong.

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The policy is not working. The bottom line-----

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Deputy Martin's figure is wrong.

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Are the parents making it up?

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Are they lying?

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Deputy Stagg, Labour's Whip, does not agree with the Tánaiste. That is in black and white in his letter to his constituent.

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He was handbagged by the Tánaiste.

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Deputy Stagg wrote, "I simply fail to see how cutting the income of the very ones who are making a real effort to improve the lot of their families and themselves help them in some way to get out of the poverty trap. It clearly has the opposite effect. I will continue to press for a reversal of this bad decision."

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Can the Tánaiste answer that?

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It is a pity that Deputy Stagg did nothing about it.

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He even wrote that he understood fully why this constituent would never vote for the party again. That is what he wrote in his e-mail.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

A question, please.

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Deputy Stagg wrote that he would continue trying to convince the Tánaiste-----

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And now she claims that he supports it.

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-----who was wrong, to reverse the bad decision.

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How is that going, Emmet?

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A Deputy

The Tánaiste is wrong.

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The lone parents and children who are suffering do not give a damn about Joan Burton having a cut off Micheál Martin. To them, that sums up the detachment from politics of those in government. What they really want to hear is who will bridge the gap for them-----

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-----who will pay to enable them to get their children to school next September and who will enable them to get petrol to get to work in order to provide funding for child care.

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Not you. You did nothing for decades.

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Sorry, but I am not worried. They do not really-----

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You turned your back on them for years.

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He is Mother Teresa now.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Be quiet, please, Deputies.

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They are not into the argy bargy of politics. It is meaningless to them.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

We cannot-----

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That type of stuff the Tánaiste is going on with is meaningless to them.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Thank you, Deputy.

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What they really want to hear is whether there is any glimmer of hope that the Tánaiste will see the light and accept that this measure, which she introduced on 1 July, is having a devastating impact on a significant number of lone parents and their children.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Thank you, but I must call the Tánaiste.

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Will the Tánaiste do something to change this? Everyone in the House is saying it, but she refuses to be convinced. Even her own party is saying it.

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I suggest that Deputy Martin, when he has the time, looks at some of the figures he has just read out in the House here about the numbers of lone parents in work, because his figures are wrong. I will provide Deputy Martin with the updated figures-----

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What about the weekly losses?

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-----and with the recent figures according to the SILC. His figures are just plain wrong.

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Did Deputy Stagg write to someone who did not exist?

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These people are imaginary.

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We could actually have a better debate if Deputy Martin came in here with some knowledge of the situation on the ground.

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Hear, hear.

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We have had the knowledge for years.

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That would be a new departure.

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I am on the ground. The Tánaiste is not. That is the problem with her.

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Secondly, can I just say this to the Deputy? For instance, the back to work family dividend, which we introduced in the budget, has now had 2,500 people - families - apply for it-----

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It does not compensate for the losses.

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-----and another 500-----

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Is the Tánaiste boasting about that?

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Quiet, please.

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For a family with two children-----

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The Tánaiste has no feelings.

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-----that is worth €60 per week.

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There has been a deduction already.

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It is specifically designed to help, including people who are self-employed, by the way, but Deputy Martin has obviously never heard of it. He referred to two self-employed people there. The back to work family dividend is actually available for self-employed people.

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I am not making up this. These are the very people who-----

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FIS is not available to them.

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I am going on the cases the Deputy raised.

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FIS is not available to them.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Tánaiste has the floor. Deputy Martin asked a question.

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The Tánaiste is trying to mislead the House.

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Can I ask Deputy Martin, as a responsible politician, to give us the actual details of the people involved? The approach by the social welfare offices----

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Deputy Stagg has their details.

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-----around the country is to meet people-----

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Cop yourself on, Tánaiste.

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Stop trying to mislead the House.

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-----on a one-to-one-----

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Someone said she communicated with the Tánaiste but did not hear a dicky bird back.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Please, Deputy, the Tánaiste is replying.

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People have said they have gone to the Tánaiste. They have listened to her.

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They are actually helping people on a one-to-one basis-----

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Where are they?

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They would do that anyway without the change.

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They cannot be found.

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-----to get back to education, to get back to training, to get employment and, if they need extra hours, to get-----

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-----extra hours from their employers.

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They did not need it changed.

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Also in the budget and at the time of the budget-----

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They did not need this to be changed.

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They get a few extra hours.

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-----we had a series of initiatives under way-----

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Someone send for the Minister, Deputy Kelly, quickly.

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What about those on zero-hour contracts? Some chance.

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-----that will significantly improve, I hope, the position for all low-paid people, including-----

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Well, I am awaiting the report of the Low Pay Commission-----

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We are sick waiting.

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What about the parents?

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Parents have been waiting for an answer.

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-----something that Fianna Fáil never did.

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How can a family survive on €80 per week less?

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Quiet, please.

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Fianna Fáil cut the minimum wage.

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How can a family that is losing €80 a week be better off?

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It cut the weekly income-----

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The Tánaiste needs to answer that. How can they be better off after losing €80 a week?

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-----of lone parents by €16.40 a week.

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Freagair an cheist.

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And the blind.

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Have working single parents' payments been reduced, or have they not? There will be a reduction of €1,000 in their incomes.

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Fianna Fáil also cut the minimum wage by €1 an hour. Lone parents in Fianna Fáil's time-----

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They were better off than they are now.

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They were far better off.

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-----of the kind that Deputy Stagg is talking about lost €16 a week.

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The income disregard is down. The Tánaiste is pathetic.

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Fianna Fáil put them into poverty.

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If they were working 15 hours a week-----

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The Tánaiste finds poverty funny.

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-----they actually lost a further €15.

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This is cold comfort to people who are losing €80 a week.

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They were actually down €30 a week.

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The Tánaiste needs to answer the question. Are working single parents' payments down? A "Yes" or "No" answer will suffice.

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Will more people go to work? How is the gap going to be bridged?

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That is the Deputies' legacy. They do not seem to remember it.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Could we have order, please? I call Deputy Tóibín.

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

They will never change.

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They are pretending not to remember.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Order, please. I have called Deputy Tóibín.

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Where are the socialists to fill the gap?

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You have some records, lads.

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The Tánaiste needs to forget about the politics, but she cannot do so.

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Michael P. Kitt An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

We have moved on to the next question.

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You have some records.

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You are some fake.

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