For most of the lifetime of this Dáil, Sinn Féin has been raising concerns about the sale of NAMA's loan books, including its Northern loan book. There is now a growing scandal around the revelations that an illegal £15 million fixer's fee was to be paid as part of the sell-off of this Northern loan book. As the Tánaiste may be aware, this matter was brought to NAMA's attention by PIMCO, a potential US bidder. It also advised NAMA that the proposed recipients of this fixer's fee included Frank Cushnahan, a member of NAMA's Northern advisory committee. Mr. Cushnahan originally was appointed by Fianna Fáil and was reappointed by the present Government. NAMA initially claimed that its Northern advisory committee was not privy to confidential information regarding this sale. However, it since has been disclosed that this committee discussed potential purchases on at least two occasions before the loan book was sold at a huge loss to Irish taxpayers. Mr. Cushnahan was present at these meetings. He later acted as an adviser to a bidder in the sale of the Northern loan book. Has the Tánaiste been briefed on these matters? Has she raised them with the Taoiseach and the Minister, Deputy Noonan? Is it acceptable, in the light of these disturbing revelations, that the Minister, Deputy Noonan, continues to protect NAMA from public scrutiny? NAMA is an arm of the State and I hope the Tánaiste agrees that it should be accountable. When will the Minister, Deputy Noonan, come before the Dáil and make a statement on these serious issues of public interest? Moreover, as I have requested, along with Deputy Pearse Doherty and others, will the Government establish a commission of investigation into the management and operations of NAMA?

First, I am advised that the loan sale was executed in a proper manner. There has been much confusion and conflation in the coverage of this matter. Much of the commentary has come in detail from various sources within Northern Ireland. My understanding is that there is an ongoing examination of a wide variety of statements and allegations made by different individuals in the North by a committee at Stormont. The second point is that the loan portfolio was sold for €1.5 billion because that is what the properties securing the loans were worth. In this regard, one has a constant comparison of pre-crash values with post-crash sales. I believe Deputy Adams has told Members previously that he owns a residential house, as well as a holiday home, and I do not know whether he has another house in the Republic. However, I would argue strongly that before the crash, quite a lot of houses rose to heights of being worth approximately half a million euro, certainly in the Dublin area. I do not know whether the Deputy has a house there.

Dublin which?

Subsequent to the fall, those houses ended up being worth €200,000 to €300,000 in some cases.

As a result of the banks. The banks caused that.

Subsequently, in terms of the recovery-----

The banks caused that.

Subsequently, in terms of-----

The banks caused that.

In terms of the recovery-----

The banks caused that.

We got that, Deputy.

-----there was an improvement-----

The Government does not understand that. The banks caused that.

There was an improvement in those values.

The Deputy has got a bit stuck.

The Deputy is arguing that a loan portfolio that was worth €5.7 billion at the top of the boom and was sold for a lesser value-----

A loss.

-----when we had a very deep crash and NAMA was responsible for getting the market going again-----

They call it negative equity. The banks call it negative equity.

This fall in value of course represents a fall in value to the taxpayer, but it was caused by the banking crash and by the collapse in values.

It was a fire sale also.

Let us be clear about that.

They call it negative equity. The absurdity.

The Tánaiste has the floor. Please.

It is absurd.

Consequently, there is no reason in particular to refer to the pre-crash value, other than perhaps as a cause of great regret that the fall was indeed so great and so substantial.

A credit pyramid caused by the banks.

NAMA paid no moneys and-----

It was a credit pyramid caused by the banks.

-----had no relationship with any party on the loan sale against whom allegations of wrongdoing now are being made. The loan portfolio was sold after an open process to the highest bidder for what it was worth. As I stated, attempting to put NAMA into what is a highly complicated Northern tale is not necessarily, I suggest to Deputy Adams, giving the full picture. NAMA did not appear before the Northern Ireland Committee for Finance and Personnel. What NAMA has done is to appear before committees of this House and speak in detail, because NAMA is an entity established by the Irish Government. NAMA does not have a responsibility in respect of the Northern Executive.

For the loss to Irish taxpayers.

What NAMA has done is to appear before committees of this House and answer questions. All the questions and briefings are available both on the website of this House and, I understand, on the NAMA website. The Northern Ireland committee submitted a list of questions to NAMA regarding the sales process. NAMA responded to that on 4 September with detailed responses to the questions, running to several hundred pages, which also are available on the website. They also are available on the website of the Committee of Public Accounts, to which NAMA is accountable on behalf of Irish taxpayers in this House.

The Tánaiste stated that this is a Northern tale. She stated that it was being dealt with by a committee of the Assembly. She then conceded that the Government is not co-operating with the Northern Assembly committee - that NAMA has refused to appear before it, as has the Minister.

I received, as a result of a freedom of information request, the briefing pack for Ministers on this issue. It states that the conflation of the issues involved in this is dangerous. It also states, and the Tánaiste has ignored this although it has been the main thrust of my question and the main thrust of our concerns, that the concern was that fees were to be paid to a Mr. Cushnahan who was a former member of NAMA's Northern Ireland advisory committee and that this would constitute a clear conflict of interest and would cause reputational damage to all involved. That is the core of it. Fixer's fees of £15 million were to be paid and this person has been named as one of those who was to be a recipient.

The chairman of NAMA, Mr. Frank Daly, says he briefed the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, in full on this £15 million fixer's fee, yet the Minister, Deputy Noonan, failed to suspend the sales process. He failed to inform the Office of the First Minister and the Office of the Deputy First Ministers. Apparently, these matters were also brought to the Taoiseach's attention in a letter in February 2014. Yesterday, the Taoiseach refused to confirm this. Can the Tánaiste confirm it? The businessman, Mr. Gareth Graham, has testified that he possesses thousands of recordings of phone calls by Mr. Frank Cushnahan, exposing inappropriate and, possibly, illegal conduct. This is, as the Tánaiste said, being investigated by the Assembly finance committee and the police. The US Department of Justice is also investigating it. The Irish Government is defending it despite the move by all these agencies to address these matters.

The Tánaiste is the second most senior member of the Government. We know there is a crisis in housing and a crisis across a range of matters that are pressing down on citizens.

There is a crisis in Northern Ireland too.

We also have this sell-off, with the allegation of an illegal fixers' fee of £15 million being paid. The Tánaiste says the Labour Party is in government to keep Fine Gael in check and so she must have a view on the Minister for Finance's handling of these issues. I would like the Tánaiste to answer the following question directly. Has the Tánaiste asked the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, and the Taoiseach about this? Surely, as Tánaiste and leader of the Labour Party she would agree, in the light of all these disclosures which are not Northern matters because, as has been said, NAMA is a national body and the money involved, in terms of the loans that are being sold, is taxpayers' money, that there is enough evidence to justify a series of investigations. Would the Tánaiste support the establishment of a commission of investigation into the management and operations of NAMA?

Is there anything in the Republic of Ireland that Deputy Adams regards as being good?

Yes, lots of things, but mostly the people whom the Government is letting down.

Deputy Adams, please, you have had a good innings.

The Tánaiste asked-----

Deputy Adams told us previously that he did not need to know about economics.

I did not say that to the Tánaiste.

I note that the other day the Deputy, in an interview, said he knows a lot about economics.

What is the Tánaiste's point?

We might get an answer to the question now.

I suspect Deputy Adams also knows a lot about governance-----

The conservation grant.

-----including of organisations of which he was never even a member, but that is another issue.

That is a scurrilous sneer.

This is being inquired into. It is a Northern matter.

It is not a Northern matter.

Everything Deputy Adams has said relates to various individuals within the Northern business community or, indeed, individuals from other communities who have come forward-----

But nothing to do with the Government.

-----to suggest there was something untoward in relation-----

To the fire sale.

-----to how property matters were dealt with-----

The briefing concedes it, Tánaiste.

-----in respect of the North of Ireland and distressed assets in the North of Ireland which, unfortunately - and I agree with Deputy Adams on this-----

I will have to examine my conscience.

The Deputy never had one.

-----have ended up being sold-----

At a loss to NAMA.

-----way below the values attributed to those assets at the height of the boom. That is my point about economics.

Many of these are people's homes.

I share the Deputy's distress on that. Does Deputy Adams agree, given that he at all times talks about Northern institutions-----

Please answer the question.

Is the Tánaiste not curious?

Can Deputy Adams not allow the Northern Ireland institutions, which are investigating this matter-----

The Government will not co-operate with them.

-----including the Police Service of Northern Ireland and agencies from the UK that deal with fraud and serious crime issues-----

The USA.

As I understand it, those different organisations, including some organisations from the US-----

Except here.

-----are inquiring into this. Does that not suggest that Deputy Adams lacks confidence in the Northern Ireland institutions to make inquiries that could lead to a conclusion of those investigations?

I believe Deputy Adams is engaging in a game of charades.

The biggest charade is what the Tánaiste is doing.

We are talking about hundreds of millions of taxpayers' money.

It is extremely important-----

Order, please.

The suggestion is that a substantial sum of money was to be awarded to a number of parties involved-----

Awarded?

I am reading in the newspapers about the allegations being made by different people-----

Does the Tánaiste not talk to the Taoiseach?

-----that a substantial sum of money was potentially going to be given, shared, awarded - whatever term the Deputy wants to use - to particular individuals involved in particular deals. Rightly, the policing authorities are examining this.

The Government is not.

I would suggest, Deputy, that that is the proper-----

What about transparency?

-----issue that needs to be addressed. If it is being suggested, as it seems to be, that sums of money were being paid to individuals in a particular way, then it is right that the policing authorities should investigate that.

And that NAMA answer questions.

It is right that the other agencies should investigate it and also that the Northern Ireland committee should investigate it-----

Should the Government fully co-operate in those inquiries?

-----and should produce answers. In regard to the Minister, Deputy Noonan, he is available to the Committee of Public Accounts and to all the other committees of this House-----

Will he come in here?

The Deputy Leader of Sinn Féin, Deputy McDonald, is a member of the Committee of Public Accounts.

Will the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, come into the Dáil Chamber?

I suggest that if Deputy Adams sees further merit in committees of this House, or members of Sinn Féin who are members of the Committee of Public Accounts, examining the matter further, they should do that.

They are going to do that.

They should do that because it is important in terms of governance and integrity of practices in the North.

They are going to do it.

But the ECB should not appear before the banking inquiry because it is in a different jurisdiction.