This morning in Loughrea, County Galway, three people are in the dock, having been accused for defending their own private property. This has come about because, in 1997, at a time when the Taoiseach was a member of Government, the current President signed off on legislation that has caused major problems throughout the country. As I said, these people are accused of defending their own private property. The Peatlands Council has been set up for turf cutters. I spoke to the Taoiseach one night when he asked me to go to a forum. We co-operated every step of the way but, sadly, the drive and initiative is not there from the State body, the National Parks and Wildlife Service. Instead of trying to solve a problem, it is trying to make criminals out of people who have never been in trouble in their lives. This is not a solution to a problem and all it will do is create bigger difficulties. It is now recognised, not by us but by the so-called experts, that up to 40% of the science used is completely wrong. There are solutions, however. One of them may be that, given the announcement that Bord na Móna has 80,000 ha which it is talking of shutting down, some of that ground could be used to ensure that the burden on people's private property is alleviated. Taking legal action against people who never saw the inside of a court in their lives will not solve this problem.

I meet representatives from the National Parks and Wildlife Service every six weeks. I will put my shoulder to the wheel in resolving this matter, whatever way it needs to be resolved. However, the one thing we keep hearing every day is Europe. I ask the Taoiseach to use his influence with these technocrats in Europe - these faceless bureaucrats who are infringing on people's property rights. People are willing to co-operate but there is a fear among our civil servants that when they go over, they will be told "No". Does the Taoiseach want to see a resolution to this problem or does he want to see people in danger of ending up in jail, like this morning? Whatever it takes, will he go to Europe and explain that this is a complex problem? Farmers are being driven off their land and turf cutters are being driven off their bogs. This is in the so-called interests of Europe but it is not a fair way. There is a resolution. Will the Taoiseach consider there may be an option in regard to the Bord na Móna land to help resolve the issue?

Yes, I spoke to Deputy Fitzmaurice about this previously and I spoke to his predecessor in the House, who had agreed a certain line of action and then decided to renege upon that. I cannot comment on any case that is before the courts, as the Deputy is well aware. The law of the land will apply and is determined by members of the Judiciary.

As Minister, Deputy Deenihan worked exceptionally hard to try to bring about a resolution to these kinds of cases. It is not that people are being driven off the land, as Deputy Fitzmaurice says. The central feature was that they wanted to be able to cut turf, as their forefathers did, on bogs which are determined to be part of a specific environmental entity. Offers were made - and have been accepted - in respect of either free turf or compensation for not cutting bogs and that scheme is still in operation.

They do not want compensation or free turf.

Unfortunately, not all of the people involved, for their own very personal and sensitive reasons, wanted to comply with offers put forward.

They have rights.

The Deputy says people are willing to co-operate. I take his point about the longer-term involvement of Bord na Móna in terms of peat cutting. The offers were there for alternative bogs to be made available so that people could either cut the turf themselves or have it cut for them. However, because of geography, it was not feasible to do that in many cases as there was not a suitable alternative bog available in the localities, as the Deputy is well aware.

I would like to see a resolution to this and I am glad to hear Deputy Fitzmaurice say he is willing to work towards that. Without going near the European personnel at all, I believe a degree of common sense might sort this out for everybody, whereby they can have access to turf and the compensation fund, because the determination of the environmental specifics of the boglands in question has been set for quite some time. I regret it has gone this far. I cannot and will not interfere in anything to do with cases before the courts. However, I would like to see a resolution to this from everybody's point of view.

The boglands in question are not being taken from anybody, nor was that ever the intention. The Boora bog in the Midlands opened up further to tourists recently. It has significant capacity for tourism and offers a quality programme which explains to people from around the country and outside of it what bogs are about - their history, the important part they have played in Ireland over the centuries and their future from the point of view of hospitality and tourism.

The Taoiseach spoke about Bord na Móna and options, but would he move to a rented house if he owned his own house? He would not, but that was the option there for bog owners. Therefore, it was a non-option.

The Taoiseach must understand that there are 35 more of these areas coming down the line at the end of next year. Nothing has been resolved. In 17 years only two of those areas have been resolved and nothing has been resolved for 51 others. I welcome the Taoiseach's consideration of the option involving Bord na Móna, but I have spoken to officials time and again and over that time have heard the same response over and again: "We do not know what Europe will say or whether it will accept it or not." Let us get one thing straight. The property is private people's property. Either we own our land or we do not. Does Europe think it owns our land as well as the moneys we are paying it for bank debt?

Hear, hear.

We must get clarity on this. Land has been designated - I am not talking just about bogs - and farmers cannot farm their land.

Will the Deputy please put a question?

The Taoiseach is well aware of this. This is happening even in his county of Mayo. In Limerick and west Cork also there are problems where farmers in marginal lands cannot clean a drain or fence their lands.

The Deputy is way over time. He should put his question.

What can they do? Will the Taoiseach go to Europe and explain to these "people", whoever they may be that we will not tolerate being bullied like this? We are willing to work with people, but it should not be up to them to make decisions. This should be done in the spirit of partnership, with people working together. It should not be them saying: "You have to get off your private property", because that will not work.

The issue here is that turbary rights are a long-standing right in Irish law. It is not a case of getting people off the bogs, but of them not cutting turf. The objective is to have turf available.

Legally, farmers cannot walk on the bogs.

Most houses do not use turf alone for heat and the quality of Bord na Móna products is higher and of a better calorific burning standard than turf cut by conventional means. People retain their ownership and their turbary rights and there is no question of these being interfered with. The issue occurs if they decide to cut turf on an area that has been designated - for some time now - as a specific environmental entity. If the issue is about turf being available to them, the scheme in place is either for lorry loads of turf to be delivered or-----

It is about more than turf. They own the rights and want their heritage and tradition.

I understand that. The issue is that they want to continue to cut turf. However, the boglands in question have been designated in a particular way and that is the law that applies. What the Deputy is saying that it is about their opportunity and right to cut their own turf as distinct from having turf from another location provide heat for homes. However, those who have accepted the scheme, the compensation or the opportunity to have turf delivered to them are happy with that decision.

They are entitled to do that.

Others have a different point of view. I hope the Deputy's influence in this area will be able to bring about a resolution. I know he has been intensely involved over the past number of years, but I hope the issue can be resolved in everybody's interest.